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Old 10-11-2010, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
29,627 posts, read 34,082,392 times
Reputation: 76600

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Quote:
I agree to some of your points, but what you are describing can easily be found in Dormont, Beechview, Mt. Lebo and all points along the T. And that's all in the suburbs.
Not to be entirely pedantic, but Beechview is a city neighborhood.

Quote:
Many young people think it will so romantic to live in an old row house until they find out that these homes were built for working people who didn't have cars. The reality of these homes is not so romantic. The rooms are very small, and only one small bathroom. The kitchens are tiny, with wiring that won't handle their electronics, no garage and little parking on the street. It's no fun lugging groceries in the rain/snow/sleet from 3 blocks away because that's the closest parking space you can find. People who want to renovate don't realize that they can't find plumbing replacement parts for plumbing installed in 1920. Closets don't exist or are very tiny. Windows can't be raised, or if they are raised, they're impossible to close and the cold wind whistles right through them. Fireplaces are clogged with decades of creosote and don't work. Roofs leak and basements are wet. There is NO air conditioning which makes spending all your weekends and vacations working on your old house much less pleasant. It's not unusual for it to be 90+ degrees inside, day and night. Neighbors are so close by that you listen to their dog bark all day and their babies cry all night. Or you deal with their thumping base all night. If you plant rose bushes people steal the roses, or the tomatoes, or whatever you try to plant. Next door is the crazy old lady who shouts obscenities at anyone who passes by. On the other side are 3 immigrant families in one small house with 6 screaming children and three pick up trucks that park in front of YOUR house so you have nowhere to park. People wake you up at 2:00 as they walk by, shouting drunk, and throw trash in your yard. You wake up because you have to have the windows open, no AC. Your electrical system can't handle even a window unit. Of course you're going to replace ALL of that, as soon as you can, but you work all day. During the day you must shut the windows or worry about break-ins, while your house heats up to well over 100 degrees in July and August. But hey, you can walk to a restaurant, as long as it's not night and you're not walking alone.
Oh, please. You're exaggerating just a tad. My house in Beechview was built in 1920 and I have central heating and air, a new roof, a basement that doesn't leak, a driveway, nice neighbors, and a yard. I've never had anything stolen, can walk to public transportation, and have a mortgage that's about half as much for what I was paying for rent. Not all city neighborhoods are the same, and very few of them are akin to living in a slum in Rio.

Last edited by fleetiebelle; 10-11-2010 at 09:08 AM..
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Old 10-11-2010, 08:59 AM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,859,479 times
Reputation: 2910
Of course everyone who lives in the autocentric suburbs dies in a car accident within a week. And I am totally not exaggerating.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,604 posts, read 77,242,002 times
Reputation: 19066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton56 View Post
It's amazing that people don't understand why people prefer the suburbs with lower crime, better schools, and a bigger house with a bigger lot for the money.

EVERY city has neighborhoods that are being gentrified. DC is filled with them, so is NOVA. Pittsburgh is not unique in that regard. Don't get me wrong, I like Pittsburgh. But I wouldn't move there to find a cheap home in need of repair. Those can be found everywhere, including the DC suburbs and the city.
A "cheap" home with character in the District of Columbia that is NOT in the racially-volatile gang-infested war-zone slums of Ward 7 or Ward 8 in Southeast is not something that is in ample supply. As I said above if one could earn $51,500 and live in DC or $48,500 and live in Pittsburgh, a city with a fraction of the cost-of-living, then what is the real "incentive" to live in a non-walkable suburban group home near DC vs. buying a rowhome in a walkable urban neighborhood in Pittsburgh, building equity in the process? Pittsburgh offers professional hockey, baseball, and football, museums, a cultural/theater district, a casino, and all sorts of shopping and dining options within an easy walk of Downtown and many other city neighborhoods for a FRACTION of the price of DC, yet DC's salaries are only negligibly higher, on average, showing just how over-priced DC has now become.

Even DC's nicer neighborhoods are no stranger to violent crime, and that fact that some of these are random violent crimes (i.e. the cycling college student in supposedly "safe" Northwest who was gunned down at point-blank range in a botched mugging as he pedaled home from work) really doesn't sit too well with me. Yes, Pittsburgh has its fair share of violent crimes, but how many murders in the Steel City are RANDOM? The most vile crime I can think of would have to be that little girl in Sheraden who was raped and murdered with her body shoved into a dumpster next to a school. Yes, that was awful, but it was also in a pretty rough neighborhood of Pittsburgh whereas that cyclist was gunned down in a "good" neighborhood of DC. A little boy was gunned down in his apartment in Columbia Heights, another "trendy" DC neighborhood, not long ago by a stray bullet.

$94,900 could get me a home like this in an up-and-coming neighborhood in the city of Pittsburgh, Denton. Where can I find a home like this in DC for a comparable price? Show me.

Lawrenceville, PA 15201 home with no address listed - Homes for Sale - MLS #833458 - Realtor.com®

I know you folks on the NoVA sub-forum have this unfounded aversion to Pittsburgh because you all think it's this industrial wasteland devoid of jobs and full of "yinzers", but why should someone like me continue to subject myself to the traffic congestion, lack of walkability, rude people, and insane cost-of-living here in Fairfax County when I could earn comparable pay AND improve my quality-of-life immensely in Pittsburgh? I just don't understand it. There is more SOUL in one block of Pittsburgh than in ALL of Reston.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,604 posts, read 77,242,002 times
Reputation: 19066
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Of course everyone who lives in the autocentric suburbs dies in a car accident within a week. And I am totally not exaggerating.
I've spent an appreciable time in both the District of Columbia and the Fairfax County, VA suburbs since moving here a year-and-a-half ago. I've only ever witnessed one accident in the city proper (and to be fair it was in one of those confusing traffic circles) whereas I've witnessed or have passed by the scenes of DOZENS of accidents in Fairfax County. Traffic in my suburb of Reston (pop. 65,000) is much worse on a typical weekend than in DC (pop. 600,000) because people here can't walk/bike to many destinations due to the sprawling nature of our suburb while people in DC CAN and DO walk/bike/Metro to most of their needs.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,604 posts, read 77,242,002 times
Reputation: 19066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton56 View Post
Every city is interesting for a few weeks.
Not Reston.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,604 posts, read 77,242,002 times
Reputation: 19066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton56 View Post
Many young people think it will so romantic to live in an old row house until they find out that these homes were built for working people who didn't have cars. The reality of these homes is not so romantic. The rooms are very small, and only one small bathroom. The kitchens are tiny, with wiring that won't handle their electronics, no garage and little parking on the street. It's no fun lugging groceries in the rain/snow/sleet from 3 blocks away because that's the closest parking space you can find. People who want to renovate don't realize that they can't find plumbing replacement parts for plumbing installed in 1920. Closets don't exist or are very tiny. Windows can't be raised, or if they are raised, they're impossible to close and the cold wind whistles right through them. Fireplaces are clogged with decades of creosote and don't work. Roofs leak and basements are wet. There is NO air conditioning which makes spending all your weekends and vacations working on your old house much less pleasant. It's not unusual for it to be 90+ degrees inside, day and night. Neighbors are so close by that you listen to their dog bark all day and their babies cry all night. Or you deal with their thumping base all night. If you plant rose bushes people steal the roses, or the tomatoes, or whatever you try to plant. Next door is the crazy old lady who shouts obscenities at anyone who passes by. On the other side are 3 immigrant families in one small house with 6 screaming children and three pick up trucks that park in front of YOUR house so you have nowhere to park. People wake you up at 2:00 as they walk by, shouting drunk, and throw trash in your yard. You wake up because you have to have the windows open, no AC. Your electrical system can't handle even a window unit. Of course you're going to replace ALL of that, as soon as you can, but you work all day. During the day you must shut the windows or worry about break-ins, while your house heats up to well over 100 degrees in July and August. But hey, you can walk to a restaurant, as long as it's not night and you're not walking alone.

Been there, done that, and after two years, couldn't wait to get back to a nice quiet townhouse in the suburbs, with no crime, many places to park, central air conditioning, modern plumbing that always worked, large closets and storage, a kitchen big enough to eat in, 2 and half bathrooms and even a dishwasher! Yes, I had to drive to the store down the street, and to restaurants but I always knew that when I got home I could park, and I wouldn't be afraid to walk from my car into my house. No drunks and rarely did I find any trash in my yard.

There are reasons why families move to the suburbs as soon as they can afford to. It's a MUCH more comfortable life for them!
Denton, obviously your urban experience was very dismal, but that has not been the case for my young professional peers who have also moved to Pittsburgh for the same reasons that I'm planning to---affordable real estate, quaint historic neighborhoods, friendlier people, less traffic congestion (I laugh when you Pittsburghers whine about "traffic" when NoVA has the nation's second-worst gridlock), and more walkability. They're all thriving in the Steel City, and those who were pondering moving away are having second thoughts now that myself (and others) have pledged to move there as well.

Also, I don't care the amount of personal "sacrifices" I'll have to endure in order to live in an older home. Seeing pocket doors, french doors, hardwood floors, natural woodwork, crown molding, stained glass windows, front porches, and other nuances you no longer see in today's newer construction is well worth it to me. This nation's obsession with throwing away the old in favor of the new disgusts me.
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Old 10-11-2010, 09:25 AM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,859,479 times
Reputation: 2910
It is a simple fact that overall car accidents are a much greater physical threat to most Americans, particularly children (and even more particularly teens), than violent crime. You can lower your risk a bit by practicing safe driving, but ultimately the biggest thing you can do is just spend a lot less time driving, which requires having other options besides cars for some trips, and shorter distances for trips when cars are necessary. I'm not saying people who live autocentric lives are necessarily doing the wrong thing, but I do think a lot of people end up focusing too much attention on the sensational (violent crime) and not enough attention on the far greater real threat (car accidents), particularly when thinking about the safety of their children.

By the way, I quite like DC--it has lots of cool neighborhoods and plenty to do. It is undeniably pricey, however, and I agree the typical salary difference does not make up the COL difference when compared to Pittsburgh.
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Old 10-11-2010, 01:56 PM
 
3,164 posts, read 6,920,786 times
Reputation: 1278
Quote:
Originally Posted by RestonRunner86 View Post
Denton, obviously your urban experience was very dismal, but that has not been the case for my young professional peers who have also moved to Pittsburgh for the same reasons that I'm planning to---affordable real estate, quaint historic neighborhoods, friendlier people, less traffic congestion (I laugh when you Pittsburghers whine about "traffic" when NoVA has the nation's second-worst gridlock), and more walkability. They're all thriving in the Steel City, and those who were pondering moving away are having second thoughts now that myself (and others) have pledged to move there as well.

Also, I don't care the amount of personal "sacrifices" I'll have to endure in order to live in an older home. Seeing pocket doors, french doors, hardwood floors, natural woodwork, crown molding, stained glass windows, front porches, and other nuances you no longer see in today's newer construction is well worth it to me. This nation's obsession with throwing away the old in favor of the new disgusts me.
How very judgmental of you. People who don't want what you want disgust you?! wow. Just wow. Many people prefer functional plumbing, washers and dryers and dishwashers, and quiet. But to each their own.

Strangely enough I live in a new house with 10 and 12 inch molding in every room, top and bottom, tray ceilings with modeling too. Heck, my own walk in closet has molding and tons of built-ins. So does my dh's closet. We also have a front porch and a back deck, sanded in place hardwood floors on three floors, built in cabinets and book cases, in several rooms, two fireplaces, one with natural stone to the 10' ceiling. French doors, with a transom window, on a study that is lined with cherry wainscoting and molding, french doors to my bedroom too, tons of windows in every room, acres of land, huge kictchen and sun room, 3 car attached garage, built in stereo system throughout the house and controlled in each room, peace and quiet outside, with gorgeous views from the front porch and back deck with the sun setting behind the mountains. Every room also wired for computers and a wireless router, and 6 toilets! You'll have to forgive me if I fail to see the benefits of an old house when I can have everything I want, and most of what you want, in a new home. Why reinvent the wheel? But I have to admit, we have no pocket doors, even with the transom windows above the many double doors. We suffer! lol

When you've suffered through your urban renewal for a few months, we'll be anxious to see how it's working out for you. Most people find it exhausting to have no free time because every minute must be devoted to their old house. But again, to each his own. You may love it. I knew one person who did. He restored 4 old houses in downtown Baltimore. He's a professor with lots of time off and working on houses became his hobby. But now that he's married with children, he's moved out to the suburbs. He didn't like the city schools and was worried about his wife's and children's safety. Again, to each his own.

You must know that you are like him and you love working on houses, so restoring an old house will be fun for you. I bet your parents love it that you have that hobby! I'm sure that you've been a great deal of help to them in their house over the years. I bet you've learned a lot too that will serve you well in restoring your own house. Perhaps someday you can provide a home for your parents in one of your restored houses! Best of luck to you!
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Old 10-11-2010, 02:09 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,859,479 times
Reputation: 2910
Yep, we are forced to spend every spare minute on our older home. In fact, right now as I type I have a screwdriver in my teeth, and I am fixing plumbing with my feet.
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Old 10-11-2010, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
12,526 posts, read 17,433,746 times
Reputation: 10629
Well, to each his own. I know for a fact when I lived in a condo-townhouse, I had a ton of free time. Now, living in a detached home on 2 acres, my Saturdays are usually filled with yard work. I'm looking about 40 hours of raking this Fall, as usual.

I'm looking for an all brick ranch, on a flat 2 acre parcel with no trees.
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