code/permit violations at rental (Pittsburgh, Bloomfield: house, transfer, neighborhoods)
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Some of you folks apparently aren't reading. I don't WANT to move, except the CITY OF PITTSBURGH says I have to move! I am just trying to find out if anyone has experience with when they might show up at my door and push me out because they have found that this place is a fire hazard and so on! A landlord knowingly rents a place that is illegal to the point that the Health Dept. deems it unfit for habitability and is not going to allow the tenant to remain there, and when the tenant asks some simple questions, the tenant is being "needlessly vindictive?" I don't think so!
I really hope you all aren't landlords. If you are, and you act with zero regard for the law, you risk losing your homes (At the VERY least, my landlord's home is going to be completely gutted - again, not my choice, but that is what the City says it is going to force), as well as being sued by the tenants that you knowingly put in a hazardous situation (or, if there is a fire and the tenant cannot escape due to your negligence, you may be sued by the tenants family). And then I expect you will tell the deceased's family that they're being "needlessly vindictive," and so on.
Before you reply to a post, try reading what the poster has written first. Before you write another "reply" to something I've never said, try reading.
Another reason to not live in the city... too many permits for too many things and most times, it is just a money grab. Yes, some things need permits due to safety but most cities go WAY overboard on things, especially with the UCC being implemented in many places. I can do plenty of work myself and so can my dad and we won't be getting any stinkin' permits, but then again, we don't live in the city of PGH so we don't have to worry about it.
So, you lived there for 4 years and all of a sudden, the city is saying it is uninhabitable??? hmm....
Seems more than habitable for the 4 years you have lived there, no? Why the change of heart? What are the EXACT violations the city is stating there are? Could the code have changed from 4 years ago to now and the new rules are more stringent than when you first moved in?
What, he only has two smoke/CO alarms and new code requires 3 or 4? Was the electrical installed incorrectly? Was the plumbing done incorrectly? Was the gas lines installed incorrectly? Is the gas meter inside instead of out?
Yeah, my brother recently found out that if you have an older house in the city that has the meter inside, if you do any gas line work, you also need to pay to have the meter moved outside at that time.
So what are you suing for, all your rent back? My advice, get over it and move on and let the landlord deal with his own issues. You didn't seem to have any problems over the 4 years you lived there or you would not have lived there that long.
Interesting. Thank you for your reasoned response. I have no idea what I might sue for. If the Health Dept./Sheriff shows up in 5 minutes, and puts me, my dogs, and my belongings out on the street today, I'll be suing for something (my motel bill for tonight, whatever property gets stolen as it's put onto the sidewalk, etc.). The City told my landlord in AUGUST that I had to get out. He waited until Jan. 2nd to tell me. So now I don't know how much time I actually have to get out.
Yeah, the place has seemed fine to me (a history scholar, so what do I know) for the 4 years. It seems fine as we speak. But the point is that the City says it's not fine and I have to get out.
And I have no idea if codes have changed in PGH since I moved in. That is not my concern. Not only is it not my concern, I certainly do not have the time or resources to get the codes changed so that my landlord can keep having a tenant here. That's his job and I couldn't do it if I tried.
Geez, the landlord has even moved a guy into a small room in the basement, which has stone walls and no heat, and NO WINDOWS to the outside. But, after reading some of the posts here, I'm sure some of you think that's just a-okay. The City, of course, thinks otherwise.
Another reason to not live in the city... too many permits for too many things and most times, it is just a money grab. Yes, some things need permits due to safety but most cities go WAY overboard on things, especially with the UCC being implemented in many places. I can do plenty of work myself and so can my dad and we won't be getting any stinkin' permits, but then again, we don't live in the city of PGH so we don't have to worry about it.
Um, actually you do have to worry about it. You may seem to think that your workmanship is so great that you don't need the hassle of having building inspectors check it. However, the person who rents or buys your home needs some assurance that renovations were done properly. I have personally renovated several houses in my lifetime (yes, I did get building permits) and have had to deal with the substandard and unsafe work done by others in the past. Requiring permits and inspections are the only way to make sure builders meet the minimum of health and safety standards.
It is the fault of the OP's landlord that he saved a couple hundred dollars by not getting the proper building permits. Also, considering he has someone living in the basement as well, it could be that the landlord also ran afoul of the City's occupancy codes.
Also, what really jumped out at me is the Health Department declaring the apartment unsuitable for human habitation. A declaration like that is extremely serious and means something well beyond not getting an inspection on a new bathroom. The OP is NOT telling the full story here.
You don't see how suing your landlord because you might have to leave at the end of your lease is vindictive?
It's not vindictive with violations as described. It may be futile, though. Depends upon how the lease is written, really. IANAL and it sounds like one might already be involved, but if the lease is UP sometime soon then this would come down to how much notice the landlord is required to give to boot you out. The withholding of the info since August is interesting but seems like might ultimately not come into play if you're now at the end of your lease and the notice he DID give is within the terms of the lease. What does the lease say? Now, if you have already RENEWED your lease before he informed you of this but after he was informed by the city, then maybe you have something if you ultimately have to move and thus incur unexpected expense. Certainly at least you could move and not be bound by the lease.
If there's only theoretical losses or harm, then I don't see what suing achieves. Exposure to someone's definition of greater risk doesn't really mean anything if nothing actually happened.
I don't think you're going to find anyone here that knows the procedures of the health department or code enforcement enough in this situation. If you really don't want to move, you need to lean on the landlord to give you the info and/or contact these authorities on your own and try to get a handle on it. But really, why would you want to keep dealing with such a landlord? Start planning your move. Yesterday. Good luck.
How did the city find out about these violations? As a landlord, I'd hope my tenants would bring up any and all issues to me prior to going to the city inspectors office. I'm not saying you did this, I'm just trying to figure out how they discovered these violations.
How did the city find out about these violations? As a landlord, I'd hope my tenants would bring up any and all issues to me prior to going to the city inspectors office. I'm not saying you did this, I'm just trying to figure out how they discovered these violations.
I was wondering that too, but it doesn't appear to be the tenant. The posts say she thought things were fine but found out about this just recently, and that her landlord was notified of violation in August. That seems like a big lag time as far as enforcement, though, even given a big enforcement backlog.
It's unclear what the specific issues still are. I mean, the inspections for building codes weren't done sounds like, but occupancy issues are sometimes simple (but bureaucratically complex) things like it's not officially subdivided to be a multi-family dwelling, etc. If there truly is a health department issue that sounds way more serious (as someone mentioned before) than what is actually being described, so it may be a simple mistake on the part of the OP as to what entity is involved. Building code enforcement and occupancy permitting for those purposes is not health department. And health department is a county entity not city. The city Bureau of Building Inspection web page: http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/BBI/
I don't think you're going to find anyone here that knows the procedures of the health department or code enforcement enough in this situation. If you really don't want to move, you need to lean on the landlord to give you the info and/or contact these authorities on your own and try to get a handle on it. But really, why would you want to keep dealing with such a landlord? Start planning your move. Yesterday. Good luck.
Thank you. I agree that learning about procedures will not happen on this forum (I thought maybe someone would have some personal experience at least, so I gave it a try. Now I know to not spend my time with this in the future!). My landlord has ceased communication with me, but I will get the facts about what is really going on from the BBI, etc.
To the posters wondering who filed a complaint, I have no idea.
Greg42, you are totally right - I do not want to keep dealing with such a landlord (Plus, now the City/Health Dept./Whatever Else is on his back and has said that I can no longer live in the home even if I DID want to keep dealing with him). I have no idea what the timeframe is (I'll find out though), but I am planning my move. Yesterday, as you suggested. Thank you for your helpful input.
I got a three day notice (via a sticker on the door) to vacate the premises when my landlord got in trouble for a variety of reasons (cracked foundation being one violation). He was notified via mail much earlier than we were and it was his obligation to post the notice for his tenants but he just never did. From what I gathered he was given multiple opportunities to correct all the issues, which were numerous and spiraled into financial issues (which his tenants were unaware of). If I were in your shoes I would plan to move.
If it was your intent to renew maybe you will have some footing, though I have no clue, but your landlord may also say your lease was ending and he had no intent to renew with you. I really empathize with your position. I, too, would be upset to find myself forced to move and wondering just how dangerous my home for the last 4 years has been. You are out the cost of having to move, unexpectedly, and the cost of fees to transfer and establish your utilities in another location.
I'm sorry I can't be of much help after this point as my landlord gave me what I requested for having to move on short notice. I was the only tenant who didn't go in blowing up on him so I'm sure that helped me. I'm also the only tenant who recouped any money from him (he filed bankruptcy).
IIRC once a landlord's rental is listed as uninhabitable he is not permitted to collect rent, but don't hold me to that, make sure for yourself. I recall something to this effect from my situation (my landlord was collecting rent and he was not permitted to), but my memory isn't what it once was. The city should be able to answer this question for you, I would think.
BTW, contact the city and tell them the landlord has ceased communication with you so you don't know if there is any final date you have to move. See if they will give you that information. When I went through it we were told our landlord was given written notice and it was his obligation to post and notify his tenants. It was too late after the fact for me, but maybe they'll give you the info. I think it's worth a try in light of things.
Last edited by feanix; 01-09-2011 at 03:52 PM..
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From what I gathered he was given multiple opportunities to correct all the issues, which were numerous and spiraled into financial issues (which his tenants were unaware of). If I were in your shoes I would plan to move.
The city should be able to answer this question for you, I would think.
