thoughts on education cuts? (Pittsburgh, State College: for sale, transfer to, private schools)

[Faer]

If you think something is 50% waste, and you simply shrink the whole thing, it still ends up being 50% waste. Institutions will continue to do what they feel is in their best interest (as we all would do), won't cut back and will just move funding from one source to another. I don't think anyone doubts raising tuitions is going to be part of that result. Now Pennsylvania already has 8 of the 14 most expensive public schools in America, and this is going to make them even more costly (but still with 50% waste!). I guess you don't need to worry about "brain drain" after graduation when students leave the state just to go to school. Cut spending by first cutting waste, not the other way around.

[squarian]

Susan Sherman, a teacher for 22 years in Duquesne, said..."This school is the heart of this community"

[LEFT]
Read more: Duquesne schools may have to close


If so, it's a very diseased heart in need of transplant surgery. It is utterly astonishing that Duquesne SD is still around. If ever one required proof of the irresponsibility of government in Pennsylvania - not just ineffectiveness but a positive danger to the common good - one would need to look no further than the continuing twilight existence of Duquesne School District. Any responsible member of the assembly should be ready to sponsor a bill for its abolition yesterday; in a functioning polity there would be half a dozen bills for that purpose working their way through committee. Duquesne is the Lenin of public school systems - it's been above surface way too long and it's high time someone buried it.
[/LEFT]

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Christ, I didn't realize people were so full of piss and vinegar when discussing the places that are attempting to positively shape the future of our declining country.

[cowboyxjon]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

It's not just PA, it's nationwide. People have been conditioned through talk radio and other forms of propaganda to demonize education. That's the way the people in power want it, it's easy to control mindless dolts who will endlessly consume.

Not to mention, the only thing standing in between complete corporate control is a few unions, and some talking head told me they are always bad. It must be true then!

I don't 'hate' education, but as a taxpayer, I get tired of my taxes continually being raised by school districts that STILL STINK even after taking more and more from me. Education in this country (in general) needs an overhaul. I'm tired of throwing money at a problem when obviously it doesn't seem to make a difference in the quality of education. Denver Public Schools has a graduation rate of 51.8%. Every year I read about new plans to 'turn things around', yet nothing seems to make a difference. The system is broken and obviously this isn't an issue that is only seen in Denver. I wouldn't mind paying more if I actually saw results, but in the meantime, I'm OK with cuts to education.

This isn't a propaganda or talk radio thing, at least in my case. And like I said, I don't 'hate' education.

I follow the Pennsylvania forums because I'm from Pennsylvania. But just an FYI -- education funding is being cut in Colorado, too, and our governor is a Democrat.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Christ, I didn't realize people were so full of piss and vinegar when discussing the places that are attempting to positively shape the future of our declining country.

I am full of **** and vinegar, indeed my ****-n-vinegar cup overfloweth,
at the fraud being inflicted on the students and parents of that dreadful scandal of a school district. I single it out as the worst, but not the only, such fraud hereabouts. And I refuse to accept the idea that DSD is a positive attempt at anything at all, in the same degree I refuse to accept that attempting to empty the ocean with a teaspoon is a purposeful and constructive endeavor. Any defender of that wretched institution is either maliciously self-interested or deluded. Anyone sworn to act in the interests of the common good who does not actively attempt to end that public outrage is derelict in their duty.

[lifepgh2op]

Originally Posted by cowboyxjon

Education in this country (in general) needs an overhaul. I'm tired of throwing money at a problem when obviously it doesn't seem to make a difference in the quality of education. Denver Public Schools has a graduation rate of 51.8%. Every year I read about new plans to 'turn things around', yet nothing seems to make a difference.

America needs to realize... WE'RE A LAZY COUNTRY. These kids don't WANT to learn and/or they don't CARE about what is being taught. It all starts with the home-life.

[pman]

Originally Posted by ex-burgher

I would not put trust in those employment numbers which may not be comparable. Do they include grad student TA'S, janitors, cooperative extension people? Unfortunately I can't seem to find a central database. I would be amazed if those numbers are accurate and comparable. You still can't deny that NC relies on the state for 25% of its budget, PSU and Pitt about 8-9% which under the proposal would drop to 4%. If this comes to pass, Penn State should drastically cut its cooperative extension service which benefits the state.

it's important enough it's worth finding out if they are or arent' comparable. in this case, youre pecentages don't tell me what I need to know. are the percentages higher because the state gives more or because unc spends less?

unc has also been busy cutting jobs

In the last three years, the system has cut a total of $575 million, 23 percent in expenses and nearly 900 administrative positions. Another 15 percent cut this year would mean a $405 million reduction in a single year — most of which will come from the academic side.

UNC Global

[ex-burgher]

Universities are constantly competing with each other for students and the best faculty, I doubt very much that there are great differences in expenditure per student. Also the entire NC System would be equivalent to PA's state system PLUS the Commonwealth system (PSU, Pitt, Temple, Lincoln) Nevertheless I will try to find this information for a future post.

[barneyg]

Originally Posted by pman

it's important enough it's worth finding out if they are or arent' comparable. in this case, youre pecentages don't tell me what I need to know. are the percentages higher because the state gives more or because unc spends less?

unc has also been busy cutting jobs

UNC Global

This 2009 report from Penn State suggests they have 17,500 full-time employees. The 47,000 figure came from a Q&A with Spanier where he basically said "we have 47,000 employees, I can't know them all", without a doubt including part-time employees.

Whether UNC is more efficient than Penn State, I don't know. An interesting yet outdated PDF slide show compares Penn State to Big 10 schools and shows 2003-04 revenue per student was slightly below average, but that appropriations (i.e. what comes from the state) were way below everybody else, explaining why tuition is higher.

[pman]

Originally Posted by barneyg

This 2009 report from Penn State suggests they have 17,500 full-time employees. The 47,000 figure came from a Q&A with Spanier where he basically said "we have 47,000 employees, I can't know them all", without a doubt including part-time employees.

Whether UNC is more efficient than Penn State, I don't know. An interesting yet outdated PDF slide show compares Penn State to Big 10 schools and shows 2003-04 revenue per student was slightly below average, but that appropriations (i.e. what comes from the state) were way below everybody else, explaining why tuition is higher.

if we can find more up to date information that would be great. this is exactly what I'm looking for so I can make an informed decision. (though I doubt the difference is all part timers but there may be legitimate explanations). While I think that the proposal, on the surface, seems drastic, I do know on the schools side there are issues (Philadelphia has a third of its seats empty and is long overdue for a downsizing).

Originally Posted by ex-burgher

Universities are constantly competing with each other for students and the best faculty, I doubt very much that there are great differences in expenditure per student. Also the entire NC System would be equivalent to PA's state system PLUS the Commonwealth system (PSU, Pitt, Temple, Lincoln) Nevertheless I will try to find this information for a future post.