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Old 04-10-2011, 07:49 PM
 
20,274 posts, read 18,215,329 times
Reputation: 2823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl View Post
You're losing me here bud. This country would turn into third world real quick if people couldn't afford to give themselves and their kids a basic education. People can't even make ends meet as it is.
The poster in question appears to be a great admirer of Third World countries in many respects, so I doubt that will deter him.
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:05 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
1,468 posts, read 1,258,199 times
Reputation: 849
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
Why, so all the schools are mediocre at best? Look at NC. Not exactly the brightest lot down that way. No offense, but seriously, the schools down there are not good. Maybe better than Mississippi, but not much. Close to Alabama though.
Do you have data to back your assessment of NC schools or is it merely based on stereotype of the South? I might have felt the same way before moving here and raising kids here. In actuality I feel many of the schools to be superior. My son's public high school actually has higher avg Sat scores than Fox Chapel high school (my alma mater) in spite of a 30% poverty rate. Anywhere you live in the county, you have access to full immersion programs in Chinese, French, German, Japanese, or Spanish. The International Baccalaureate program is available to all.
Charlotte Mecklenburg schools is a finalist (3d time) for the Broad Prize in Urban education for reducing the achievement gap. Every high school has full contingent of AP and honors courses and has graduates accepted to Ivy League schools. I have a friend who moved from here to Pittsburgh - to Mt Lebo for the schools. She was surprised at how much less rigor there was. In high school, they moved to Lynchburg where they again saw improvement.
There are many things I like better about Pittsburgh - schools are not one of them.
I firmly believe that when you have a school district with a mostly affluent population, there is less incentive for them to truly pursue excellence, innovate and help the weaker students. This is because their test scores are already high due to the population of students, not necessarily from the quality of the school. They rest on their laurels so to speak.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...x8E_uQqKQ7xIkQ
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:11 AM
 
Location: Charlotte
1,468 posts, read 1,258,199 times
Reputation: 849
On the negative side, our per pupil expenditures are much lower in NC. I imagine this is due to the absence of unions and lower teacher pay. So it is difficult to attract good teachers. Still, I feel a tremendous effort is being made with the resources available.
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:23 AM
 
Location: O'Hara Twp.
3,348 posts, read 2,944,913 times
Reputation: 1019
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
Lets take a look at the idea of private schools only. Central Catholic is dirt cheap and it is private. My school tax bill alone would send my kid to Central. You might think I am kidding, but I am not. MY TAX BILL PAYS FOR CENTRAL. Hello? Guess minds closed really can't look at things from all sides. If we got rid of public schools and just had people pay for school, it might work better.

I wanted to add my kid pays over $2 for lunch. I could get two McDoubles for that price. Once again, I guess I am paying for a few other kid lunches out of my pocket. To be honest, I am tired of this. I am due for a reassessment on my home when Allegheny County's leaches raise my taxes. I am going to start saying NO to handouts. That includes schools. Everyone pays their own way. I have had enough.

Central is over 8000 a year. Cheap only in comparison to Shadyside. You would have to live in a half million dollar house in Fox Chapel for Central to be cheaper than your tax bill. If you do, then no one feels sorry for you.
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Southside Flats, Pittsburgh, PA
217 posts, read 194,687 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
I wanted to add my kid pays over $2 for lunch. I could get two McDoubles for that price. Once again, I guess I am paying for a few other kid lunches out of my pocket. To be honest, I am tired of this. I am due for a reassessment on my home when Allegheny County's leaches raise my taxes. I am going to start saying NO to handouts. That includes schools. Everyone pays their own way. I have had enough.
I am guessing there is a really good chance most people here have never driven on the road you live on. I'm sick of paying for your freeloading road. That being said, I'm expecting you and everyone living on that road to be sending a check to the government. Everyone pays their own way. I have had enough.
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:46 AM
 
4,690 posts, read 1,897,826 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
I agree the politics of a countywide school district would be nearly inconceivable. On the other hand, we may get to the point where the status quo is unsustainable, and there is in fact an education provision in the state constitution...The PA courts have dismissed prior litigation under this clause as outside the scope of what the courts can adjudicate (although there is a lot more data about performance and necessary costs available today, so those prior holdings may have been undermined). But if school districts actually start shutting down for lack of adequate state funding, then it could lead to a very different result in the courts, including court-ordered consolidations.
I agree that the politics are tough. It would take a broad consensus between the Gov and both houses of the Assembly, and that's just not on the cards for the next decade or so. On the other hand, I'm not putting my money on the judiciary either, not as long as PA elects judges. So what scenario is left?

One possibility is catastrophe - Watts-style riots might tip the scales and produce an atmosphere friendly for reform out of sheer shock. Not a pleasant thing to contemplate, though - and if there's a definition of a broken political system, it's that reform can occur only by cataclysm. "Let them eat cake" wasn't an ideal policy prescription for Bourbon France and isn't any better for us.

Another would be a school board strike - if the directors of one, or better yet several, basketcase districts made a public determination that their situation is untenable and simply suspended operations in their districts, the state would be obliged to step into the breach under the same provision you quoted. Once the state is directly responsible for education in a number of districts, a resolution is likely to be much more pressing for the Gen Ass, and some sort of reform legislation more likely to follow.

I have to admit, though, the most likely scenario is the continuation of the status quo, with all its inequities and inefficiencies. Aux barricades, citoyens.
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Great White North Hills
8,275 posts, read 7,351,461 times
Reputation: 4508
A good public education is IMHO, one of the best things this country does, it's the universal equalizer. Excel in the classroom and you have a pretty good chance to make it in the real world.

If only those that could afford it get an education, this country is in trouble. I was fortunate to graduate from college without owing a cent, good paying summer jobs were available back then. I never could have afforded to pay for my public education, not many positions available for kindergartners.

I live in the North Allegheny SD and yes the taxes are high, but I knew it before moving here and consider it necessary for kids to get a good education.

Last edited by Copanut; 04-11-2011 at 08:01 AM..
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Old 04-11-2011, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Wilkinsburg
1,661 posts, read 1,258,800 times
Reputation: 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
Lets take a look at the idea of private schools only. Central Catholic is dirt cheap and it is private. My school tax bill alone would send my kid to Central. You might think I am kidding, but I am not. MY TAX BILL PAYS FOR CENTRAL. Hello? Guess minds closed really can't look at things from all sides. If we got rid of public schools and just had people pay for school, it might work better.

I wanted to add my kid pays over $2 for lunch. I could get two McDoubles for that price. Once again, I guess I am paying for a few other kid lunches out of my pocket. To be honest, I am tired of this. I am due for a reassessment on my home when Allegheny County's leaches raise my taxes. I am going to start saying NO to handouts. That includes schools. Everyone pays their own way. I have had enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Faer View Post
I am guessing there is a really good chance most people here have never driven on the road you live on. I'm sick of paying for your freeloading road. That being said, I'm expecting you and everyone living on that road to be sending a check to the government. Everyone pays their own way. I have had enough.
Yeah, for real. I'm tired of paying for that sht street.

Seriously, though, thanks for pointing this out. It's a simple concept, but I think people often forget how crucial taxes and government have been in their lives.

I hate when people make the argument, "Why should I have to pay taxes when all the money money is spent on other people anyways. Everything I have, I've earned."

If not for taxes you pay and the governments that collect and distribute them, there wouldn't be roads for you to get to work to earn money, your boss would be free to break into your house each night to rape you and steal your food, and there'd be no education system for you to receive the training necessary to get the job in the first place. It's a pretty simple thing -- it's in your best interest for others to have access to educational facilities and for governments to be able to foster the conditions under which success is possible, exactly like it has been done for you, me, or anyone else that can purchase, skillfully operate, and safely sit in front of a computer posting crap to online message boards.
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Old 04-11-2011, 08:48 AM
 
Location: ɥbɹnqsʇʇıd
4,381 posts, read 3,012,761 times
Reputation: 3160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ML North View Post
it's in your best interest for others to have access to educational facilities and for governments to be able to foster the conditions under which success is possible, exactly like it has been done for you, me, or anyone else that can purchase, skillfully operate, and safely sit in front of a computer posting crap to online message boards.


This is exactly what I've been saying. The ferocious American idea of "I earned this, screw everyone else" no pans out because it just ends up biting everyone on the ass.
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Old 04-11-2011, 11:34 AM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
11,277 posts, read 7,439,330 times
Reputation: 3704
Quote:
Originally Posted by robrobrob View Post
Central is over 8000 a year. Cheap only in comparison to Shadyside. You would have to live in a half million dollar house in Fox Chapel for Central to be cheaper than your tax bill. If you do, then no one feels sorry for you.
You don't pay that if your kid is very good at a sport. They have been trying to recruit him like they do.
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