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Old 03-09-2011, 07:54 AM
 
20,274 posts, read 17,783,894 times
Reputation: 2819
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
I don't want to offend our regulars who live in the 'burbs, but please be honest and admit you only moved to Cranberry, McCandless, O'Hara, Upper St. Clair, etc. because you personally didn't want an urban lifestyle---not because the city offers a sub-par quality-of-life in comparison (which it does NOT).
To be fair, the conditions you find in the City now are a lot more promising than they looked 30 years ago. The same goes for the value proposition offered by transportation possibilities, and so on. And we still haven't figured out how to handle the City's legacy costs.

So it is a complex situation, particularly if you look beyond just the present.
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Old 03-09-2011, 07:55 AM
 
Location: East End of Pittsburgh
747 posts, read 573,000 times
Reputation: 511
You cannot have 10 highway lanes pouring into a downtown with narrow streets. If we were to widen our highways, it would be more costly than Bostons central artery.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:14 AM
 
Location: Sebeka, MN
2,877 posts, read 2,696,990 times
Reputation: 2662
People are creatures of habit. Most can not be broken. There are simply too many single occupant cars/trucks/suvs sitting in traffic during the rush hours. Can't get them into Mass Transit or car pools? Then let them sit and crawl their way into town and back out at day's end.

Any improvements to the process should be to the Mass Transit not widen tunnels and Highways because once you get all that traffic into the Down Town area, they'll just begin to stack up there. It would be a waste of money. Improve the Rail/Bus or what ever Service that can be of use to an area such as Pittsburgh. It is the ONLY way.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
11,007 posts, read 7,054,789 times
Reputation: 3438
Quote:
Originally Posted by slamont61 View Post
People are creatures of habit. Most can not be broken. There are simply too many single occupant cars/trucks/suvs sitting in traffic during the rush hours. Can't get them into Mass Transit or car pools? Then let them sit and crawl their way into town and back out at day's end.

Any improvements to the process should be to the Mass Transit not widen tunnels and Highways because once you get all that traffic into the Down Town area, they'll just begin to stack up there. It would be a waste of money. Improve the Rail/Bus or what ever Service that can be of use to an area such as Pittsburgh. It is the ONLY way.
This is very true. Catastrophic events are the only way people change. What would they be? $6 dollar gas? Downtown parking fees go through the roof? A temporary closure of the parkway due to some huge sink hole or a tunnel situation that would take 6 months or more to repair? Then if one of those things happen, how could anyone change people's habits? Run luxury buses to downtown via busways that run frequently enough to give confidence to the people that ride them. Safe park and ride places that you don't have to worry about anything happening to your car/huge SUV.

Lets look at an example of a very big situation going on right now. Rt. 28 is going through a huge overhaul. The outbound is down to one lane right after the 31st street bridge, which makes the closure of one lane even more problematic. What is going on because of that? Nothing. There was no offer to get people in and out of the city or something different proposed such as that rail that is used to haul an amazing amount of coal to a few power plants. No new bus routes to help with traffic. No completion of the bike trail from Aspinwall to Pittsburgh. No capitalization on the disruption of Rt. 28. Why? The habit of people cannot be broken with a lane closure. It isn't nearly enough. It needs to be catastrophic and even then so many would go down Butler Street, or up onto Penn Ave, or even over to Bigalow.

How would anyone ever change? Government intervention? Could the government come out and say, you cannot drive into the city without a permit? That can't work. It is a very difficult problem that has no clear answer. I think it all has to do with costs of each person. If you can afford to drive into the city and pay for parking, wear and tear and deal with the stress of such a commute, then you drive in. If you are going bankrupt do to the costs of driving in, then you ride a bus. Nothing else is going to change anything.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:31 AM
 
4,622 posts, read 4,438,039 times
Reputation: 1956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
A list of the 100 busiest highways in the United States has Pittsburgh listed once in the top 10, twice in the top 25, and three times in the top 50. The rankings are:

9. I-376 eastbound (inbound) from Rosslyn Farms to the Fort Pitt Tunnel
24. I-376 westbound (inbound) from William Penn Highway to the Squirrel Hill Tunnel
48. I-376 eastbound (outbound) from Second Avenue to William Penn Highway
And people really think Pittsburgh/Allegheny County really has the infrastructure to handle life without Public Transit....

People are in for a very rude awakening.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh area
9,878 posts, read 9,051,605 times
Reputation: 4645
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
I don't want to offend our regulars who live in the 'burbs, but please be honest and admit you only moved to Cranberry, McCandless, O'Hara, Upper St. Clair, etc. because you personally didn't want an urban lifestyle---not because the city offers a sub-par quality-of-life in comparison (which it does NOT).
Wow, do people actually say that still, trying to justify it because the city offers a sub-par quality of life? I think the main factor for me, if I had to define one, would be familiarity.

Anyway, I'll write a huge post on how my mind worked at the time and what has changed since 2003 (when I bought the house) and various ramblings about all that if you're really interested, but I can't do it right now.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:05 AM
 
20,274 posts, read 17,783,894 times
Reputation: 2819
People do gradually change their behavior in response to things like rising fuel prices. It takes a while because many of the most relevant changes involve things like location decisions, which don't happen every day. But a few years after a significant fuel price increase, you will see an effect on vehicle-miles-traveled, the mix of cars being sold, transit ridership, and so on.

Of course when it comes to transit, you have to actually provide people with that alternative. Our current process doesn't make it easy to invest in new transit, and we are in the midst of a political dynamic which has benefited anti-transit politicians. But I am quite confident that dynamic cannot, and will not, be sustained in the face of increasing fuel prices.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:13 AM
 
4,622 posts, read 4,438,039 times
Reputation: 1956
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
But I am quite confident that dynamic cannot, and will not, be sustained in the face of increasing fuel prices.
All the Analyst are predicting 5$ a gallon gas by May/June in most major cities...Already knocking on the Door of 4$ by few pennies here in NYC...

Remember high gas is what threw us into recession last time, people couldn't afford to pay their mortagages and drive their cars so BAM!!!! We Crashed.
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Old 03-09-2011, 10:26 AM
 
20,274 posts, read 17,783,894 times
Reputation: 2819
Hopefully the adjustments that began in 2008--and indeed years before that as real gas prices started to rise--will cushion us from too much of an economic shock in 2011. But I expect we are looking at many more years, perhaps even decades, of people gradually finding ways to adjust.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Sebeka, MN
2,877 posts, read 2,696,990 times
Reputation: 2662
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
All the Analyst are predicting 5$ a gallon gas by May/June in most major cities...Already knocking on the Door of 4$ by few pennies here in NYC...
Like a weatherman's prediction, that storm may never come. But it should. Once gas penetrates the 5.00 mark, people actually begin to react. Before that they simply complain about each bump. Once the price of gas really begins to take that bite out of the budget, then we will see the process start where some who wouldn't think it, might consider altering their typical routines. Too bad the Port Authority is going in the other direction and cutting service instead of boosting it to more useable levels. They may find a few more passengers soon. But not until people really feel a bite in their gasoline budget. Will it rain?

Those with Trucks and SUVs are most likely to feel the pinch first and they are by far the worst of the offenders anyways.

Last year I owned a truck but now I'm driving a Jetta. I'm doing my part, I can and do actually walk to work.

You know, if the price per gallon really does jump up that high - it's just in time for summer tourism season. Way to bolster the economy!
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