Possibly relocating from DC Metro Area (NOVA) - Advice? (Pittsburgh: rentals, condo)
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Possibly relocating from DC Metro Area (NOVA) - Advice?
Hi all.
My husband and I are considering moving out of the DC Metro area for a number of reasons, and are currently looking at new places. We both grew up in Northern VA (Loudoun) and then lived in Portland OR for a time, but came back to VA for a job. We like our area because of the rich history, and I love the less dense areas of DC Metro, where you can still find farms. However, the cost of living is getting ridiculous and neither one of us wants to work for the government or a government contractor anymore, which is the majority of this area's job options.
We are considering going back to Portland, we both loved it, but there are a few things that are making us think that we should stay on the East Coast (family considerations). I haven't been to Pittsburgh, but I've been researching and we are planning a weekend trip soon to check it out.
I guess my questions are:
What is the cost of living like compared to the DC metro area? To give you an idea, a typical condo costs between 180-300k here and the typical house is between 250-400k in Leesburg. Rent for a 2-3 bedroom is between 1400-1800 a month, and utilities are pretty pricy. Gas is around 3.80 right now. Milk is 3.50-4.00. Hope that paints a picture.
Are there parts of the city that are fairly inexpensive, but have a unique or cultural flair? We don't mind industrial spaces (Portland had this feel) but we do like to support local/independent businesses and have places to go at night (our area shuts down after 8). We enjoy the independent/folk music scene and would like to see shows, and we miss used records stores (they are virtually non-existent here, espeacially compared to PDX). We also love to haunt used book stores.
What is the public transit like? We are very used to driving everywhere in DC area, but I would like to get back to being able to walk or ride bus or train most of the time.
Are there a lot of parks/walkable areas/bike paths accessable? I know the city is hilly, but we loved the fact that we could walk almost anywhere in Portland, and that there was tons of green spaces in the city.
Is the city generally dog friendly? We have 2 and would need to rent for about a year before buying (if we liked it) and DC has a lot of issues with dogs (eoutrageous fees/restrictions). And there are virtually no dog friendly parks anywhere.
How cold does it get in the winter and how long does it last? My hubby is slightly afraid of moving somewhere with worse weather than DC.
Where would be a good place(s) to stay in order to get a feel for Pittsburgh? Where would we get access to a large part of the city? We were thinking of taking the train in, but could drive if the city isn't transportation friendly.
Anything else you would like to share is appreciated. If you know anything about Portland OR and would like to share comparrisons, it would be very appreciated.
I've got relatives in Portland, including my brother and sister. We've compared the cities before on this forum, and there are some interesting points of overlap, including the overall scale of the cities, the walkable neighborhoods, and the omnipresent connection to the outdoors/nature. There are also some notable differences, including the fact that outside of its historic districts, Portland feels much newer, the culture is a bit different, and Portland is also considerably more expensive.
Anyway, housing for purchase is generally going to be much less expensive here than in the DC area, and still less expensive but not as much so when it comes to rentals. It really depends on exactly where you are looking, but homes for purchase can easily be 2-3 times more expensive in the DC area.
We've pretty much got every sort of residential area, often for not too much money. I detected both an interest in rural areas and an interest in more semi-urban areas, so that is a choice you would have to make, but again, both are available for a reasonable price. We've got gazillions of small neighborhoods with their own distinct personalities--the fragmented local topography likely contributes to that.
Our public transit system is pretty good in a few areas, not so good (or non-existent) in other areas. As you narrow down what you are looking for, we can help guide you to the places with better transit.
Dogs are very popular here. We could use more off-leash areas, but lots of the parks are great for dog-walking. My only caveat is that some of the bigger management companies might have restrictive pet policies, and in general the rental market is tight so landlords don't have to be as accommodating.
As you might expect from looking at a map, the winters fall somewhere in between the DC area and the Great Lakes region (I've lived in all of Detroit, Chicago, and DC in addition to Pittsburgh). Most of the Pittsburgh area doesn't get lake effect snow, and daytime temperatures in winter are often (not always) above freezing. This is actually my biggest complaint with Pittsburgh weather--I like snow, and our snow often doesn't stick around for long. These days DC doesn't seem much different, but it at least used to be the case that a small amount of snow in the DC area was a big deal, and it is more common in Pittsburgh.
Personally, if you could afford it, I'd stay right Downtown, maybe within walking distance of the train station. Downtown is nice and a good place to walk around and get some sense of the history of the area, and it is also the center of our transportation system so it makes a good base from which to explore other parts of the area. Incidentally, beside the train you might also look at using Megabus for a visit (it drops off in the same general area Downtown)--it can be much cheaper if you book far enough ahead, has a better schedule (more options and quicker), and the buses they use are pretty nice (with WiFi and such).
This tool has been entertaining me all day since i found it and I made it assume a salary of $100,000. You can go it and change it and play with it yourself.
A $100,000 salary in DC-VA is comparable with this salary in
Pittsburgh, PA
$65,403
If you move from Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA to Pittsburgh, PA....
Groceries will cost: 4% less
Housing will cost: 67% less
Utilities will cost: 0% less
Transportation will cost: 3% less
Healthcare will cost: 13% less
Housing is a lot less in Pittsburgh than the DC metro, although Leesburg is relatively cheap compared to say Alexandria or Arlington so the difference isn't quite as drastic. Also make sure you factor in property taxes to housing cost which is substantially more in Pittsburgh. But still, its a lot cheaper even with the taxes... you can definately find a nice home for 150-250k and even servicable homes for under 100k. The tax difference makes the effective cost up to 15-20% higher, but its still a bargain. These won't put you in a dumpy or dangerous part of town either, you'll get stable, solid, safe, middle class neighborhoods. Rent will seem like less of a bargain but should still be a bit cheaper than what you are used to... part of this has to do with property taxes being high, part of it has to do with supply and demand. There's a lot of options for different types of living in Pittsburgh from distinct urban neighborhoods to semi-urban inner suburbs, to standard US suburban sprawl, to rural farms. There's historic homes, there are newer homes, and there is also plenty of stuff that was built in the 70's-90's that doesn't really qualify as either.
Utilities, food, gas, and just about everything else won't be all that different.
Public transit is mostly by bus and is pretty decent for a lot of purposes and completely useless for others.
Its reasonably dog friendly, but renting with pets will be an issue basically anywhere. I'm sure you can find a rental having a dog, but most/all landlords would prefer you didn't have a dog unless they either really love pets or don't care about their place. Hopefully you can find the former type.
Weather is certainly colder than DC and it snows more often (but usually in small amounts). As someone who spent the first 18 years of my life in Northern VA... the winters are definitely colder to the point you notice but not enough to make them miserable. They can be cloudy and grey, which bothers some people apparently... I barely noticed. Summers are very pleasant though, again not vastly different but enough that you notice. You can get by without AC in Pittsburgh, doing that in Northern VA would be a lot harder.
This tool has been entertaining me all day since i found it and I made it assume a salary of $100,000. You can go it and change it and play with it yourself.
A $100,000 salary in DC-VA is comparable with this salary in
Pittsburgh, PA
$65,403
If you move from Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA to Pittsburgh, PA....
Groceries will cost: 4% less
Housing will cost: 67% less
Utilities will cost: 0% less
Transportation will cost: 3% less
Healthcare will cost: 13% less
Interesting thread to read - I do have to disagree w/the grocery cost portion though. As expensive as it is to live in the DC-VA area, I have consistently found when I go back to visit and shop and speaking to family and friends still there that groceries can be had for less here: there is much more competition and that drives prices down.
As for the housing costs, I agree - I can't speak to healthcare differences - I generally also find that gas there is approximately the same if not a few cents more. Friends and family also are paying more in utilities, some of about the same size house, some much lower. JMO
I haven't been to Pittsburgh, but I've been researching and we are planning a weekend trip soon to check it out.
You are planning a weekend trip. That is a good idea. The area you live in is quite clean. My family and I are in DC area often and they keep most of it quite polished. Therefore, you will need a nice area to live. No fringe areas or you won't be happy. Since you only have a weekend I suggest you get the walking shoes out and go to certain areas and walk around.
1. Shadyside's Walnut Street and Elsworth St. shops and surrounding homes. It is wealthier, but you are coming from DC area.
2. South Side's downtown and newer homes nearer the river side primarily, but an overview. While there, check out the views up on Mt. Washington.
3. Squirrel Hills downtown area and surrounding homes. Wealthier, but once again I am concerned what you are used to.
4. Point Breeze has a tiny downtown, but check out Frick Park and a little restaurant called, Point Brugge Cafe. Walking to the park from the restaurant is great!
5. Sewickley Village. Wonderful.
_______________
The reason I suggested the places above is because what you are used to seeing. You are used to very neat and tightly and it will be hard to give up, but I don't know that. Now if you are changing completely and want to live in a more eclectic setting check out the following:
1. Lawrenceville's Downtown and homes in and around 42-50th Street.
2. The Strip District.
3. Highland Park
4. If you want or are having kids, Aspinwall.
This should be enough to chew on. I suggest walking a lot to get a true feel. Drive to the areas and park the car and take a stroll.
I read the whole post. What I didn't do is imagine all sorts of things about the OP that she didn't say.
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