5th avenue high school (Pittsburgh, Washington: for sale, renters, buy)

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

"North Side"? I think the term is too vast. The North Side can mean so many places that are very different than the next. Walk through Allegheny West is quite different than walking through Northview Heights at night. I will take Allegheny West thanks. Manchester is pretty spotty still. Some streets are fine while others might not be the best place to be at night. Then the projects around Fineview aren't very nice. Charles and Perrysville used to be BAD, but I don't know if it is still bad there. It has been a long time since I have been around there at night. I used to live in Perry Hill Top back when Federal Street was a shooting gallery. I hated driving up that street back then. Of course now it is much nicer.

This is a common complaint in my neighborhood when it comes to reporting "Northside" crime. In many ways it's too broad a term to be beneficial or descriptive. Unless you know specifically where the event took place it paints the entire area with too broad a brush for people that don't know its geography, imparting negativity. Some even feel that reporters doing "stand-ups" in front of Police Headquarters, reminding everyone they are "live from the Northside" after they've just relayed some grizzly or disheartening crime-related details to the Pittsburgh viewing public, mostly about events that didn't take place in our neighborhood, has a negative effect on our "branding".

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Lobick

This is a common complaint in my neighborhood when it comes to reporting "Northside" crime. In many ways it's too broad a term to be beneficial or descriptive.

Incidentally, I completely agree with this personally.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I respectfully disagree. I'm not saying these people were right, but I frequently heard people talk about the whole North Side like it was a war zone, and I still hear that sort of talk from some people today. Heck, there were people talking about not wanting to go to Rivers Casino because it was on the North Side.

Meanwhile, I actually hear very little talk about Uptown specifically. People talk about the Hill a lot, and maybe they are lumping Uptown into that category sometimes, but I think Uptown actually is more of a blank space for many people than a neighborhood they know much about or have strong impressions of (they can't even agree on what to call it--I've heard all of Uptown, the Bluff, and SoHo).

I think you're probably right that Uptown gets collectively lumped into "The Hill" and doesn't have much of an independent identity.

With regard to the Northside specifically, I think we may be talking past each other and about two different things. I think for many people, the Northside was lumped together with a group of neighborhoods to which they'll never go, the perception being that its simply too dangerous. It was a position built out of ignorance, never having gone there. I think the truth was that it was never quite as rundown as some other parts of the city with which it was commonly mentioned.

[ML North]

The analog would be if Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, Highland Park, Sliberty, Homewood, Regent Square, Garfield, and Greenfield were all collectively referred to in the news as East Side. It wouldn't take to long before Walnut had the reputation of Homewood Hilltop.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Lobick

With regard to the Northside specifically, I think we may be talking past each other and about two different things. I think for many people, the Northside was lumped together with a group of neighborhoods to which they'll never go, the perception being that its simply too dangerous. It was a position built out of ignorance, never having gone there. I think the truth was that it was never quite as rundown as some other parts of the city with which it was commonly mentioned.

Hopefully my prior post clarified what I was saying. Personally, I agree it was always highly misleading to lump the North Side together into one collective area, and that people who saw it as one big war zone were fundamentally ignorant.

I was only pointing out that such an impression, while not accurate, was also not uncommon a few years ago, and still persists among some today.

On the other hand, despite some persistence, I also think it is breaking down. More and more people are becoming aware of the complexity of the North Side--and of course parts of it are also getting nicer.

The point of all this is that I don't really think the current reputation of Uptown--to the extent it even has a reputation--is really much of a barrier to this particular project being as successful as something like Heinz Lofts or the Cork Factory. Again, I'm not at all trying to say the North Side ever deserved its blanket reputation, and instead I am more suggesting that such reputations based on ignorance won't necessarily impede good projects.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by ML North

The analog would be if Shadyside, Squirrel Hill, Highland Park, Sliberty, Homewood, Regent Square, Garfield, and Greenfield were all collectively referred to in the news as East Side. It wouldn't take to long before Walnut had the reputation of Homewood Hilltop.

What is funny is that there IS something called "the East End" in the view of many locals, and yet many people mentally edit places like Homewood out of that concept. Which in its own way is as unfair as painting the North Side with one brush, even if it results in a more favorable connotation for the concept.

[ML North]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

What is funny is that there IS something called "the East End" in the view of many locals, and yet many people mentally edit places like Homewood out of that concept. Which in its own way is as unfair as painting the North Side with one brush, even if it results in a more favorable connotation for the concept.

Yeah, I guess the whole thing is exclusively about perception.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I respectfully disagree. I'm not saying these people were right, but I frequently heard people talk about the whole North Side like it was a war zone, and I still hear that sort of talk from some people today. Heck, there were people talking about not wanting to go to Rivers Casino because it was on the North Side.

They're wrong. You're basing everything on what you've heard. You don't have any first hand knowledge of North Side's history. Basically, you were listening to idiots who didn't know what they were talking about.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Meanwhile, I actually hear very little talk about Uptown specifically. People talk about the Hill a lot, and maybe they are lumping Uptown into that category sometimes, but I think Uptown actually is more of a blank space for many people than a neighborhood they know much about or have strong impressions of (they can't even agree on what to call it--I've heard all of Uptown, the Bluff, and SoHo).

People don't comment on Uptown because there's almost nothing there. There's really no reason to talk about it---positively or negatively---because there are very few reasons for people to go there. At night, some people are standing around on the sidewalks of Uptown, presumably from the Hill but maybe they live in Uptown.

Since there are almost no businesses and few residences, it feels quite dangerous area to walk through because there is nowhere to go for help or safety if something happens. I wouldn't hesitate to walk through any part of North Side, even Manchster. (I can say this with absolute certainty because I lived there.) There are way more people living in Manchester. At least you can pound on someone's door there if you need help. Being in danger in Uptown would be like an old horror movie of someone pounding on doors of empty buildings.

I'm not easily frightened of dangerous neighborhoods. Most people leave me alone when I'm in various areas of Pittsburgh. I've found people to be very helpful when I've stopped to ask for directions in the middle of the night too. But Uptown is way too scary for my taste late at night for walking around. The Hill isn't as scary to me because it's more populated.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The point of all this is that I don't really think the current reputation of Uptown--to the extent it even has a reputation--is really much of a barrier to this particular project being as successful as something like Heinz Lofts or the Cork Factory. Again, I'm not at all trying to say the North Side ever deserved its blanket reputation, and instead I am more suggesting that such reputations based on ignorance won't necessarily impede good projects.

Totally disagree. The area where Heize lofts is located was never dangerous.

Most Pittsburghers know that because it's located right at the Heize factory.

Uptown is a different ball game entirely. Those apartments will not be easy to rent without some more development of Uptown.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Hopes

They're wrong. You're basing everything on what you've heard. You don't have any first hand knowledge of North Side's history. Basically, you were listening to idiots who didn't know what they were talking about.

Again, I'm not saying I agree with any of that personally. I am just explaining what I have heard other people say in the past. In other words, we were discussing the North Side's reputation, not the reality. I agree its reputation was undeserved.

People don't comment on Uptown because there's almost nothing there. There's really no reason to talk about it---positively or negatively---because there are very few reasons for people to go there.

Right. And since we have been discussing reputations, that makes Uptown more or less a blank slate.

Totally disagree. The area where Heize lofts is located was never dangerous. Most Pittsburghers know that because it's located right at the Heize factory.

Once again, I agree about the reality. Once again, I respectfully disagree about the perception--in fact, I have specifically heard people in Pittsburgh say of the Heinz Lofts that they are in a dangerous location.

Uptown is a different ball game entirely. Those apartments will not be easy to rent without some more development of Uptown.

We shall see once they are finished. I predict that they very quickly rent most of them out. You are predicting otherwise. This is one of the few situations in which, after a little wait, we will actually know which of us is right.