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Old 05-27-2011, 10:47 PM
 
Location: ɥbɹnqsʇʇıd
4,478 posts, read 3,221,901 times
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Keep in mind that the Gammage incident was carried out by Brentwood police who are not part of the Pittsburgh Police Department.
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:38 AM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
11,660 posts, read 7,989,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
h_curtis, I notice you cry all day about Section 8 and not wanting poor ghetto folk invading a certain neighborhood in a back n forth you had with BrianTH...but then you go on here to say that "If you were black you'd move to ATL or DC".....

So my question is are you confirming Pittsburgh is racist, because you yourself have a hint of being racist, or at least an Elitest??? I asking because seems like if a person reads between the lines it all seems to come together.
I don't believe in section 8, which has nothing to do with being black. Why is it that even you seem to think that equates to being black? Last I checked it was a program that was based on income and situations, not race. Being someone that lived on Stanton Ave for several years, I really got tired of all the litter and complete disregard for everyone's surroundings. I also got tired of seeing beautiful homes being treated like wastelands. This all lead to me not liking government handouts since it promotes the attitude, "they owe me" instead of people picking themselves up with a feeling of pride. Brian and I disagreed on this matter like we disagree on lumping every school in our county together creating a huge school system that would end up like Woodland Hills. I can't afford to pay these huge school taxes and send my son to private school. He is paying for private school for his kid, so all this really wouldn't effect him.

As far as me saying, if I was black I would move to ATL or DC. It seems very different down those ways to me. So many professional blacks in and around Georgetown for example and it was a very noticeable contrast than the norm in Pittsburgh. That being said, I felt the area would have a better vibe than Pittsburgh if I was black because the lifestyle would be better it seems. Just from my observations and many others that I have discussed it with, which include people that live in NOVA and used to live here.

Insinuate what you like about all that. Some call me a monster because I don't want the schools all to merge in the county. Wonder how the North Allegheny parents would think about a huge merger? Hampton? USC? Mt. Lebo? Yeah, you are right, they would no doubt align themselves with Brian's view. I would be alone in mine.
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Old 05-28-2011, 08:41 AM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
11,660 posts, read 7,989,512 times
Reputation: 4230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl View Post
Keep in mind that the Gammage incident was carried out by Brentwood police who are not part of the Pittsburgh Police Department.
There are always the odd incidents that are in and around the media. There are over 300 million people in the US. How long did the Rodney King thing get played over and over. It made many feel that is how the police in the whole country act, but if you look at the fact that there are 300+ million people in the US, I think the police do a great job. Sure there will be the media frenzy over a thing like Gammage and it will get played a million times to show all, that this is the norm, but it isn't.
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:02 AM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
11,660 posts, read 7,989,512 times
Reputation: 4230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
h_curtis, I notice you cry all day about Section 8 and not wanting poor ghetto folk invading a certain neighborhood....

So my question is are you confirming Pittsburgh is racist, because you yourself have a hint of being racist, ...
Take a look at what you wrote above. You equate section 8 with black people. Is that the feel for the whole country? Do people in NOVA say the same thing as you? I guess I hope not. I would like to believe there are places out there that people of all colors don't equate section 8 with only black people and feel it is a Pittsburgh thing, that I don't think anyone should be proud of. My hope was NOVA and Atlanta would be places there may be enough very successful people of all races that people wouldn't say what you stated. Am I wrong? This is the way it is throughout the US? I hope not. Looking at all this, I have to wonder who is really racist?
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:02 AM
 
4,721 posts, read 4,822,138 times
Reputation: 2055
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
I don't believe in section 8, which has nothing to do with being black. Why is it that even you seem to think that equates to being black? Last I checked it was a program that was based on income and situations, not race. Being someone that lived on Stanton Ave for several years, I really got tired of all the litter and complete disregard for everyone's surroundings. I also got tired of seeing beautiful homes being treated like wastelands. This all lead to me not liking government handouts since it promotes the attitude, "they owe me" instead of people picking themselves up with a feeling of pride. Brian and I disagreed on this matter like we disagree on lumping every school in our county together creating a huge school system that would end up like Woodland Hills. I can't afford to pay these huge school taxes and send my son to private school. He is paying for private school for his kid, so all this really wouldn't effect him.

As far as me saying, if I was black I would move to ATL or DC. It seems very different down those ways to me. So many professional blacks in and around Georgetown for example and it was a very noticeable contrast than the norm in Pittsburgh. That being said, I felt the area would have a better vibe than Pittsburgh if I was black because the lifestyle would be better it seems. Just from my observations and many others that I have discussed it with, which include people that live in NOVA and used to live here.

Insinuate what you like about all that. Some call me a monster because I don't want the schools all to merge in the county. Wonder how the North Allegheny parents would think about a huge merger? Hampton? USC? Mt. Lebo? Yeah, you are right, they would no doubt align themselves with Brian's view. I would be alone in mine.

OK - Just wondering, I found it kinda of courious....

The reason you find the contrast between successful blacks in DC staggering vs. the Burgh...Is because in DC again has to do with enclaves and segregation...

the professional blacks in DC/PGC, MD segregate themselves from the professional white neighborhoods...They dont want to live in Ghettos and they don't want to live in mostly white area...They feel they should have an area to call their own...I don't agree with that, its a form of segregation.

Notice in DC there are very few areas where Affluent AA and Whites call home together?

Pittsburgh professional affluent AAs dont feel this way, we are happy to assimilate with Whites..and we actually prefer it again for the safety, better lifestyle and education opportunities for children.

Regardless of what a few people on this forum try to fallaciously emulate...Pittsburgh is not a segregated/enclavish city, it's just NOT!

Outside of AA dominated Ghetto's...you dont have racial/lifestyle/nationality/ethnicity enclaves in the burgh...and to me that's a sign of true diversity in my book. Everyone is free to live where they want and dont feel like they need to segregate themselves to feel accepted or safe.

Again if Pittsburgh was a truly racist city...you would hear the complaints from the Middle/Working Class Affluent AA as you do from the improverished. The Affluent AAs damn sure wouldn't be living in the White dominated burbs at record numbers. I can't think of one Pittsburgh suburb in Allegheny county that is 100% white...
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:05 AM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
11,660 posts, read 7,989,512 times
Reputation: 4230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
OK - Just wondering, I found it kinda of courious....
I should have never mentioned I was in Fox Chapel. I feel I get a raw deal on here due to that fact. Better to say, I am from the Pittsburgh area and keep it generic. Then you won't get everyone pointing a finger at you if you have an opinion on schools or cleaning up parts of the city. Live and learn, but too late now.
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
981 posts, read 707,320 times
Reputation: 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
Outside of AA dominated Ghetto's...you dont have racial/lifestyle/nationality/ethnicity enclaves in the burgh...and to me that's a sign of true diversity in my book. Everyone is free to live where they want and dont feel like they need to segregate themselves to feel accepted or safe.

I think this is a good point, and shows that there isn't the wide scale racism that some claim. If anything, it clearly shows that people of all races prefer to segregate themselves by class.

I always find it kind of strange that some many whites on this forum seem to want to see middle class AA form their own neighborhoods. I don't really understand this thinking, as I'm of the mind that they would do that if that's want they wanted, but they clearly prefer not to.
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:51 AM
 
4,690 posts, read 2,021,008 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl View Post
Keep in mind that the Gammage incident was carried out by Brentwood police who are not part of the Pittsburgh Police Department.
Absolutely true! My memory failed me - Johnny Gammage was killed by Brentwood, Baldwin and Whitehall cops, including the infamous John Vojtas, later the center of a mystery involving a dead girlfriend and his service revolver.

The DoJ report on the PPD consent decree refers to

Quote:
highly publicized incidents of police use of force against African Americans, a widespread belief that complaints against the police were not thoroughly investigated, racially charged rhetoric in political campaigns, and the deaths of two black men in police custody. The anger that many citizens felt as a result of the deaths and other reports of misconduct eventually grew into a call for greater accountability.
which all sounds eerily familiar now - but if not Gammage, who were the two men who died in custody? Or if Gammage was one of the two referred to here, who was the other? Neither the PG and Trib archives go back that far, and the DoJ report doesn't cite a source.

http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/files/RIC/.../e09050003.pdf
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Old 05-28-2011, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
26,549 posts, read 47,213,684 times
Reputation: 11418
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
I always find it kind of strange that some many whites on this forum seem to want to see middle class AA form their own neighborhoods. I don't really understand this thinking, as I'm of the mind that they would do that if that's want they wanted, but they clearly prefer not to.
I suppose in my eyes I think it would go a long way towards helping to eradicate any racism that does still exist from Caucasians towards African-Americans if pretty much every majority-African-American neighborhood in and around the city wasn't "the hood". I agree with h_curtis that Wilkinsburg has great potential to be a mecca for middle-class and upper-middle-class African-Americans. I also see this in East Liberty, too. When you have a neighborhood that is 99% African-American (Homewood comes to mind) that is also extremely violent then that does nothing to help eradicate racist beliefs from the "yinzer" crowd.

There were actually some majority-African-American parts of Metro DC that were also pretty affluent. While NoVA was diverse in terms of Hispanic and Asian descents there wasn't really anywhere with a dense concentration of black professionals. Nearby Prince George's County, Maryland, however, was (is still?) majority-African-American, and while the parts nearest to DC are generally still "the hood" if you go to places like Bowie, for example, you'll see many high-end subdivisions nearly 100% inhabited by African-Americans.

I suppose I just wish the black professional class in Pittsburgh was more visible. For every one African-American individual I meet here who is college-educated, owns a business, or is otherwise making something of themselves I meet two others with the "gangsta" attitude. In NoVA EVERY (yes, EVERY) black person I met was sophisticated and upstanding in nature. I just still haven't quite adjusted myself to the reality yet that Pittsburgh's professional black class is smaller (or just less visible) than its black underclass. I had the pleasure yesterday of meeting an extraverted and charming black woman at work who happens to be in control of a major magazine in the city. My boss asked if she would come to speak at a graduation party our business is holding to honor three African-American employees who are in the process of graduating high school and are all going to college. It's things like that which make me feel happy inside, but it's just not quite as "visible" here to see many blacks in a suit-and-tie walking around vs. a white person.
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:06 PM
 
294 posts, read 462,663 times
Reputation: 130
Having traveled to other cities smaller and larger in this nation...Pittsburgh is one of the retarded areas
of the country in terms of lack of trends that are developing in most of the country...Gnutella hit the
nail on the head...Western Pennsylvanians are complacent and resistant to change..both "black" and "white"...
The blacks here as a rule have never gotten their act together as a group..(Cleveland has had 2 black
mayors and Columbus and Cincinnati have black mayors)...I am being fair in that I am comparing 3 similar size rust belt cities that are similar in culture and development...

You have the pervasive Yinzer mentality which isn't used to black authority and the ghetto mentality
which failed to develop black authority or a strong black middle class...This all might have to do with
the heritage this being a steel mill area? with a go to work and go home attitude? working class pervasive attitude?...no big thought to self advancement? or limited self advancement...I did notice A LOT OF NEPOTISM in this region, never mind the qualifications... Just wondering why things failed to
develop here or develop MUCH LATER than in other parts of the country..For example..the IGA on Forbes was touted as a new type of urban supermarket..NEW? Chicago and New York have had those
types of stores for YEARS...
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