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Old 04-13-2012, 10:20 PM
 
4,690 posts, read 1,853,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
rail lines crossed borders before the feds took over so I don't see why that would be the case
Before the feds took over? When was that - I have the impression that the Federal gov't was very much involved in the great age of railroad building, but maybe I'm wrong (or thinking more of a genuine Conservative, Sir John A. Macdonald).
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Philly
8,718 posts, read 7,184,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squarian View Post
Before the feds took over? When was that - I have the impression that the Federal gov't was very much involved in the great age of railroad building, but maybe I'm wrong (or thinking more of a genuine Conservative, Sir John A. Macdonald).
that's mostly for the transcontinental railroads but the railroads that largely built this country were regional and local in nature whether they be the big boys like the pennsylvania and ny central or smaller entities like the ma and pa...all crossed state borders as necessary. these were not federally controlled or guided companies. the feds took over with the new deal, prior to that the transportation system could probably be called a public private affair. remember the transcontinental railroads were an absolute disaster, they were built to maximize federal land grants in the west, went bankrupt, and had to be rebuilt (when running a railroad you want the shortest route from a to b, when maximizing land grants you want the longest).still, even those days it was the private interests pushing the planning, not state governments.
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Old 04-14-2012, 07:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
the railroads that largely built this country were regional and local in nature
I guess I was thinking mostly of the Canadians, then. The Conservatives under Sir John A. gave very large subsidies to both the Grand Trunk and Canadian Pacific.

But fine, if there's precedent I'm up for it, let's go the DeMint route, wrap up the Transportation Dept. and return its budget to the states. I suspect rich northeastern and western states would gain, and instead of their money spent to maintain Iowa interstates, they could keep it for their own purposes.

And some logical confederacies might form in short order: CA-OR-WA to maintain I-5 and parallel rail lines, for example. All the states along the BosWash corridor. Removing the flyover politicians from the debate might even be the only way we get to HSR in the coastal sections.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Philly
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did he not mention they would still collect some tax? i understood the point is that roads and rails that are often local in nature (nsc?) are paid for with taxes paid to the feds and sent back to states...it is somewhat nutty and the feds often tie strings. i think wed ve better off if 80 had been built as originally planned. the main point is that transportation still gets done...it would just look different. it will always be political in nature to some extent as projects affect the well being of cities and states
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
did he not mention they would still collect some tax? i understood the point is that roads and rails that are often local in nature (nsc?) are paid for with taxes paid to the feds and sent back to states...it is somewhat nutty and the feds often tie strings. i think wed ve better off if 80 had been built as originally planned. the main point is that transportation still gets done...it would just look different. it will always be political in nature to some extent as projects affect the well being of cities and states
DeMint didn't get very precise in that interview, which to be fair was wide-ranging and only briefly touched on transportation, but presumably he and his allies would retain a vestigial Transportation Dept (though maybe downgraded from cabinet and incorporated in another dept) to carry out a much smaller role.

Redistributing money through a federal level to the states/provinces works mostly as a way to equalize the differences between rich and poor (in fact, that's exactly what they're called in the Canadian confederation: equalization payments). Which is fine if we're all in it together - national unity, one for all and all for one, etc.

But I suppose it is possible to reach a point where differences in ideology and priority mean that one section's idea of progress will simply never happen. In which case, what's left but to trash the idea of "all for one" and let the states/provinces sink or swim. Of course, this could never happen if the dominant ideology of the red states was "give us your money". But since it's red-state politicians like DeMint actively championing federalism, then fine - let them have it their way; the blue states will keep their own cash, build their own HSR (or single-payer system, or whatever). Seems like it's worth a try - especially since the likely losers are the ones clamouring for it.
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Philly
8,718 posts, read 7,184,030 times
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so theres little value in the federal transportation system since taking from dense urban areas and giving it to politically connected projects is probably the worst way to distribute funds. by taking from " rich" and giving to "poor" they drained the wealth fron cities and created new concentrations of poor...while creating an oil dependent lifestyle that may or may not have made sense. it probably never worked except when there was enough money for everyone to get projects done (though its obvious pa has not been much of a beneficiary). i dont see why healthcare has to be related to transportation. the fact is transportation was done differently in the past and worked. there is more than one way to solve problems. just because transportation is pushed back to the states doesnt mean were a confederacy nor does it mean the imminent breakup of the country..perhaps its just the opposite. why was it a good idea to build murtha airport but not improve keystone west?
theres nothing wrong with a little differentiation between states. it makes little sense for a company to continually raid its profitable lines merely to build new warehouses or capacity in areas that need it least but it may make sense to pay its executives less to provide better healthcare or wages to its operating employees (not saying companies do this, but it would be far less damaging than misallocation of capital). in the long run, the more capital is misallocated, the less income there is to redistribute.
eta: the whole one for all all for one sounds like a fascist slogan (or more accurately, corporatist) where we're all viewed as part of a one greater good, the country.

Last edited by pman; 04-14-2012 at 09:52 AM..
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Old 04-15-2012, 05:23 AM
 
Location: Virginia
18,717 posts, read 14,564,336 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
that's mostly for the transcontinental railroads but the railroads that largely built this country were regional and local in nature whether they be the big boys like the pennsylvania and ny central or smaller entities like the ma and pa...all crossed state borders as necessary. these were not federally controlled or guided companies. the feds took over with the new deal, prior to that the transportation system could probably be called a public private affair. remember the transcontinental railroads were an absolute disaster, they were built to maximize federal land grants in the west, went bankrupt, and had to be rebuilt (when running a railroad you want the shortest route from a to b, when maximizing land grants you want the longest).still, even those days it was the private interests pushing the planning, not state governments.
What an interesting post. Learn something new everyday.
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Old 04-19-2012, 01:01 AM
 
4,633 posts, read 4,492,407 times
Reputation: 1971
And Gov DoNothing continues to, well, Do Nothing...

Quote:
With a decision looming on the largest service cuts in Port Authority of Allegheny County's 48-year history, agency officials said on Wednesday that they are looking at ways to improve finances.

The board of directors expects to vote April 27 to cut service by 35 percent, which officials said would result in a loss of 40,000 of its 225,000 daily riders. A committee yesterday recommended the cuts, meant to erase a $64 million deficit. Its budget this year is $370.2 million.

Read more: Transit service's 35 perent cuts advance - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review Transit service's 35 perent cuts advance - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review
Quote:
"This is not something that any of us want to do," said Wendy Stern, the authority's assistant general manager for planning and development, who gave a presentation on the impact of the service reductions.

Forty-six of the remaining 102 bus routes would be eliminated. Service would end at 10 p.m. on all but 13 bus and rail routes. Six suburban routes would be shortened. Some 400 to 500 drivers, mechanics and administrative staff would be laid off. The Collier bus garage would close

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...ol-ads-632055/
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
And Gov DoNothing continues to, well, Do Nothing...

The Proclaimers, What do you do?


Yes I know you're right
I see it in your fierce eyes
But me I've never thought straight
Since the day I had the first doubt

Yes I know you're right
And I'll back you to a point pal
But I'll never be constrained
By another man's ideas now

I spent too long on this road
Looking for the answers
But Poverty and Failure
Aren't what I'm after

I painted "Fight" on factories
But they closed the factory down pal
I want to find out where the Heart's gone
Find out where the nerves gone

What do you do
When democracy fails you
What do you do
When the rest can't see its true?

Pat votes the Scots way
Just like her mother
But South always takes all
Just like her brother

The next time she might vote
So might the others
But times running out pal
Cause they're giving up in numbers

What do you do
When Democracy's all through
What do you do
When minority means you?

Last edited by squarian; 04-19-2012 at 07:31 AM..
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Old 04-19-2012, 07:27 AM
 
4,690 posts, read 1,853,161 times
Reputation: 1569
On this question if not others, democracy has failed us and minority means us.

(But the Scots have a parliament now)
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