You think its bad for PAT now, it's about to get A LOT WORSE! (Pittsburgh: unemployed, live)

[raubre]

Originally Posted by LIRefugee

Regarding the pensions, is there some sort of large fund that is used exclusively to pay the pensions, or are the pensions paid out from funds as they come in? What is the possibility of the pensions being converted to something that PAT would no longer be responsible for, such as a 401(k) or similar?

I'm guessing the possibility is "not at all" for various reasons.

and what if it runs out?

[Goinback2011]

From my reading on the subject, the pension problem occurred from sometime in the 1990's until someone caught on to the scam a few years ago. It started with management awarding themselves large pensions after 20 years of service. Then the union workers jumped on the scamwagon.

Changes have since been made so workers have to work for a longer term and get smaller pensions, but that's closing the barn door a little too late. PAT now has a huge fixed cost, growing every year, and no means to increase revenue.

[LIRefugee]

Originally Posted by raubre

and what if it runs out?

Then too bad for the owner. I'm not saying a conversion should happen, but it's one possible course of action.

One way or another, quite a lot of people will be screwed, it's a matter of who gets screwed and how. One possible way is to screw over the pensioners while keeping all transit users unaffected. The opposite will happen if the cuts go through as planned.

I'm not saying it's the best way forward, but one way or another some group of people are going to suffer unless the PAT somehow gets fully funded for every year indefinitely.

As things are, it's a no-win situation for everyone.

[raubre]

Originally Posted by LIRefugee

Then too bad for the owner. I'm not saying a conversion should happen, but it's one possible course of action.

One way or another, quite a lot of people will be screwed, it's a matter of who gets screwed and how. One possible way is to screw over the pensioners while keeping all transit users unaffected. The opposite will happen if the cuts go through as planned.

I'm not saying it's the best way forward, but one way or another some group of people are going to suffer unless the PAT somehow gets fully funded for every year indefinitely.

As things are, it's a no-win situation for everyone.

I guess maybe I should have also asked, is this pension fund big enough to take care of those who are on it? I would think that may end up running out on its own eventually.

[BrianTH]

To review the facts:

1) PAT had a plan for dealing with its long-term budget issues. It has been trimming its labor costs in recent contract negotiations, and in conjunction with professional consultants developed a comprehensive service redesign to improve efficiency (the TDP). There certainly are continuing long-term problems with PAT's finances, but nothing that would require these cuts;

2) However, meanwhile the state changed from using general funds for transportation to using a dedicated fund, a portion of which is allocated to PAT. A dedicated fund requires dedicated revenues, and most of the dedicated revenues are declining in real terms. However, the state also planned to dedicate a new toll on I-80 to the transportation fund;

3) Unfortunately, as was expected by many, the feds disallowed the I-80 toll, causing a shortfall in the dedicated revenues for the transportation fund, which in turn triggered a cut in the state's funding to PAT (along with the state's funding for every other transportation agency, including PennDOT, SEPTA, and so forth--all of them are facing their own crises, with PAT just being out ahead a bit in terms of the worst effects);

4) The state cutting its contribution to PAT is what has mandated these draconian service cuts. Rendell bought some time by making a one-time additional contribution to PAT, which PAT spread over two years by making the previous rounds of smaller cuts, but that money will be used up by September. Further union concessions this summer may help a bit, but make no mistake: the predictable and inevitable effect of the state severely cutting its funding contribution to PAT is that PAT has to make these severe service cuts. In other words, PAT was actually using its state funding to provide service, so if you cut that funding, you cut service;

5) Corbett appointed a commission to look into the state's transportation funding crisis (which again goes way beyond PAT). The commission came back with a set of recommendations for finding new, sustainable revenues for the transportation fund. The state legislature wanted to take up these recommendations, but Corbett refused to support doing anything about transportation last year, so those legislative efforts stalled out;

6) Now Corbett is supposedly ready to propose something regarding transportation in his upcoming budget, but we don't know what.

That is a basic description of what has happened to date. I honestly do not understand why people insist on looking to people like Ravenstahl for a solution to this problem--the City doesn't fund PAT, the City doesn't manage PAT, and there is nothing Ravenstahl can do about the state slashing PAT's funding other than complain about it, which Ravenstahl has done.

Indeed, this is really all about Corbett now--he needs to support a solution to the state's transportation funding crisis, which will include PAT along with everyone else. And it is extremely counterproductive for people to be blaming officials like Ravenstahl instead, because deflecting attention to other political actors just takes pressure off Corbett to do what needs to be done.

So for goodness sake, people--if you care about transit in Pittsburgh, or really transportation of any kind in the state of Pennsylvania, you should be talking about Corbett 24/7, because as of now he is the one official standing in the way of addressing this crisis.

[SuburbanPioneer]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Indeed, this is really all about Corbett now--he needs to support a solution to the state's transportation funding crisis, which will include PAT along with everyone else. And it is extremely counterproductive for people to be blaming officials like Ravenstahl instead, because deflecting attention to other political actors just takes pressure off Corbett to do what needs to be done.

I'd wait for the results of labor union negotiations before pressing on Corbett to do his part.

[UKyank]

Or just support declaring of bankruptcy & renegotiate everything. Airlines seem to manage this with little to no disruption on the user end of things.

[LIRefugee]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

So for goodness sake, people--if you care about transit in Pittsburgh, or really transportation of any kind in the state of Pennsylvania, you should be talking about Corbett 24/7, because as of now he is the one official standing in the way of addressing this crisis.

It seems he's been the lone figure standing against Pennsylvania transportation for as long as he's been in office.

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

To review the facts:

1) PAT had a plan for dealing with its long-term budget issues. It has been trimming its labor costs in recent contract negotiations, and in conjunction with professional consultants developed a comprehensive service redesign to improve efficiency (the TDP). There certainly are continuing long-term problems with PAT's finances, but nothing that would require these cuts;

2) However, meanwhile the state changed from using general funds for transportation to using a dedicated fund, a portion of which is allocated to PAT. A dedicated fund requires dedicated revenues, and most of the dedicated revenues are declining in real terms. However, the state also planned to dedicate a new toll on I-80 to the transportation fund;

3) Unfortunately, as was expected by many, the feds disallowed the I-80 toll, causing a shortfall in the dedicated revenues for the transportation fund, which in turn triggered a cut in the state's funding to PAT (along with the state's funding for every other transportation agency, including PennDOT, SEPTA, and so forth--all of them are facing their own crises, with PAT just being out ahead a bit in terms of the worst effects);

4) The state cutting its contribution to PAT is what has mandated these draconian service cuts. Rendell bought some time by making a one-time additional contribution to PAT, which PAT spread over two years by making the previous rounds of smaller cuts, but that money will be used up by September. Further union concessions this summer may help a bit, but make no mistake: the predictable and inevitable effect of the state severely cutting its funding contribution to PAT is that PAT has to make these severe service cuts;

5) Corbett appointed a commission to look into the state's transportation funding crisis (which again go way beyond PAT). The commission came back with a set of recommendations for finding new, sustainable revenues for the transportation fund. The state legislature wanted to take up these recommendations, but Corbett refused to support doing anything about transportation last year, so those legislative efforts stalled out;

6) Now Corbett is supposedly ready to propose something regarding transportation in his upcoming budget, but we don't know what.

That is a basic description of what has happened to date. I honestly do not understand why people insist on looking to people like Ravenstahl for a solution to this problem--the City doesn't fund PAT, the City doesn't manage PAT, and there is nothing Ravenstahl can do about the state slashing PAT's funding other than complain about it, which Ravenstahl has done.

Indeed, this is really all about Corbett now--he needs to support a solution to the state's transportation funding crisis, which will include PAT along with everyone else. And it is extremely counterproductive for people to be blaming officials like Ravenstahl instead, because deflecting attention to other political actors just takes pressure off Corbett to do what needs to be done.

So for goodness sake, people--if you care about transit in Pittsburgh, or really transportation of any kind in the state of Pennsylvania, you should be talking about Corbett 24/7, because as of now he is the one official standing in the way of addressing this crisis.

I realize that this has been your long standing position on transit but if Corbett is not going to fund public transit who should try and fix it? At some point you really do have to move on and figure out how to save PAT until a governor is elected that is more sympathetic to public transit.

For example, if you are opposed to abortion you aren't exactly going to Obama for help with your cause. Instead, you are out there trying to get a Republican elected.

As you also recall, Onorato did more than sit on his hands he actually attempted to broker a deal between the unions and management.

[Goinback2011]

Brianth, it's unlikely the people of - say - Altoona want to pay for people in Pittsburgh to ride the bus. The problem is a PAT problem, created by PAT and must be solved by PAT or by taking PAT into bankruptcy.

Saying it's the state's problem and an unending source of funding should originate there is the union's line to keep their gravy train going.