Mon-Fayette Expressway to open on July 11, 2011 (Pittsburgh, Washington: homes, most dangerous, moving)

[BrianTH]

That's the same pitch people have made for such highway projects for decades, and they almost never work out that way, and instead they tend to accelerate the decline of the distressed neighborhoods they pass through. And I just don't see a reason to believe this time would be different.

Oh well--it probably will not get put to the test, so we will likely never know for sure.

[jimsmith022968]

Well, the road will be totally finished from I-68 in West Virginia to Route 51 near the Century III mall by next year. We'll see if that benefits the Mon-Valley at all. Right now, the highway is still segmented.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

I certainly hope SOMETHING gets completed on the northern end. A connection to the airport via the proposed Southern Beltway would be a decent start. I don't think the highway was a good idea but having it dead end at 51 makes it practically useless. You still have to sit through the worst of the 51 traffic to get to the highway when coming from Pittsburgh anyways.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

If they can't come up with the funding to finish the road as designed, I wonder if they could modify the plans to end at the Glenwood Bridge? Still expensive but at least the road would serve the city and hopefully alleviate some traffic along 51. Of course this would require some significant infrastructure changes around Hazelwood/2nd Ave.

[neurodistortion]

I think they should at least connect it to Route 30 or better yet, the PA Turnpike. It'll only serve its purpose if you have an interstate highway on one end and another interstate highway on the other end. Moreover, they should designate the Mon-Fayette as an interstate highway. Sometimes companies will only locate somewhere if they're near an interstate highway.

[JoeP]

That's the same pitch people have made for such highway projects for decades, and they almost never work out that way, and instead they tend to accelerate the decline of the distressed neighborhoods they pass through. And I just don't see a reason to believe this time would be different.

Yes, but again the dynamics here are different - 1) We've had decades without the interference of a highway going through these communities and yet...

2) these communities have been in sharp decline for the same period

3) nobody is going to invest in brownfields that can't be reached by trucks

4) residents have long, awkward and ridiculous access to the city

5) the region's topography and outdated highway system has made congestion worse than it need be and a significant alternative to the Parkway East would be very beneficial

Now purists won't listen to any of those points because they will only accept some utopian rail world that will never ever happen, nor would it address the brownfield transportation issue (moving products out).

I love rail - I want it all over Pittsburgh and every city, but even if it expanded it will never be adequate, not even remotely for the issues related to Mon-Fayette.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JoeP

Yes, but again the dynamics here are different

Those actually aren't different factors than the ones usually cited. And what tends to actually happen when the highway opens up is all the investments are made in the new greenfield locations, and the disinvestment in the established locations actually accelerates. Meanwhile, the highway becomes a permanent land-value-destroying feature, not just directly along the path but also on both sides for quite a distance.

Again, this isn't about "purity", it is about observing what really happens to the areas they slice through, versus what they promise will happen.

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Again, this isn't about "purity", it is about observing what really happens to the areas they slice through, versus what they promise will happen.

The highway is already completed in the areas where new development is most likely. So I'm not sure what is worse....allowing an expensive highway to sit unused and eventually deteriorate in obscurity or somehow find a way to link it up to the rest of the region and allow development to take place. I think all can agree that it was a poorly perceived plan from the start. Now we need to figure out the best way to make it work.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by trlstreet

So I'm not sure what is worse....allowing an expensive highway to sit unused and eventually deteriorate in obscurity or somehow find a way to link it up to the rest of the region and allow development to take place.

At a cost of $1.9 billion (probably much more now) to complete it, I'll take Plan A.

Now if you want to talk about taking some of that money and upgrading some of the roads in the Mon Valley, OK. Better yet, do an integrated plan including some rail (which is not actually a complete non-starter, despite allegations to the contrary).

Edit: Here is PennFuture's "Citizens Plan" (warning: large PDF), which includes a whole bunch of different projects that together could do much more to encourage investment and redevelopment in the Mon Valley (note that not everything in the Citizens Plan would be necessary for that purpose--even just the road upgrades would cost less and do more for the existing Mon Valley communities):

http://www.pennfuture.org/UserFiles/...plan_82702.pdf

[SlurmsMcKenzie]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

At a cost of $1.9 billion (probably much more now) to complete it, I'll take Plan A.

Now if you want to talk about taking some of that money and upgrading some of the roads in the Mon Valley, OK. Better yet, do an integrated plan including some rail (which is not actually a complete non-starter, despite allegations to the contrary).

I still think there is some middle ground between 0 and 1.9 billion that would allow a better connection the the highway and not be as intrusive as earlier plans connection to Oakland and the Parkway West.