07-14-2011, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
airwave09
I think BrianTH summed up the architecture argument very well. As for the efficiency, you couldn't be more incorrect. The layout of the city is a grid wherever the topography will allow it, and then on slopes the roads usually take the easiest path that required the least amount of excavating to build. That is the definition of efficiency right there. I'm sorry it couldn't be all grid, but the topography only allows so much. The transit options are poor because urban transit funding is almost non-existent while suburban highways and roads are heavily subsidized.
If you look at each individual neighborhood, most of them are grids for at least their primary core blocks. But their entrance/exits/junction points with other neighborhoods typically not.
I'm also not sure that just because something is laid out in a grid makes it efficient. That assumes the same amount of people want to be traveling in each section of the grid at any given time.
It would probably help to define efficiency - time? gas consumption? birds-eye distance traveled? I can get somewhere way further in the same amount of time on a windy suburb road when compared to idling on a city block that is jammed with traffic.. which is more efficient?
07-14-2011, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
tranceFusion
I'm also interested in the position of many city-dwellers and their thoughts on personal choice and its indirect impact on others. For instance, clearly we would have a better public transit system if every individual was required to use it. But, I personally don't believe that overrides the right of an individual to choose not to use it. I wonder if discrepancies in these types of opinions are the source of the clash.
As an aside, I consider myself pro-City, but I actually live in a suburb. Nonetheless, I am going to give my answer to your question and hope you don't mind.
I don't think people should be coerced into riding public transit. But I also think it is important to recognize that none of these decisions that people make are made in the absence of public policies. In transportation, for example, lots of public money is spent on roads and related services. That's a good thing in the abstract, because people need transportation and for various reasons the public needs to be involved in providing it.
But such resources are not infinite. And once we are reaching the point where urban roads are regularly being congested (a point we reached and passed long ago in Pittsburgh), it is time to start investing in higher-capacity alternatives, such as public transit. And it is also time to start considering congestion charges.
Unfortunately, some people will interpret such suggestions as being anti-car, or anti-driver. In particular, some people will interpret congestion charges as being deliberately punitive. But it really isn't--it is about making the most efficient use of our public resources to provide the most transportation benefit that we can.
So I have no problem with individuals making choices. But I also think we have to understand that our public policies will inevitably influence the choices people make, and we should be OK with that.
07-14-2011, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
BrianTH
Under some circumstances it costs less money, and under many more circumstances it only costs a small premium.
The reason to care is that interesting architecture affects people. And this actually has straightforward economic implications: land values can be higher in proximity to better architecture, so not just the individual properties, but other properties nearby, will benefit.
Unfortunately this gives rise to a potential free-rider problem. Say if every structure in a locale spent 10% more on design, every structure would be worth 30% more. That's a good deal. But say if then just one structure didn't spend the 10% more, it would still be worth 25% more. That's an even better deal, for that property. The problem is if every builder thinks that way, none of them will spend the 10%, and no one will get the benefit.
That's the basic economic case for localities regulating these issues: to prevent free-riders and allow for greater overall land value. Of course there is no inherent reason that suburbs shouldn't think the same way.
The only reason that 10% higher costs bring 30% higher value is scarcity. If every house built had architectural interest, this scarcity would cease to exist. Then everyone would just be spending 10% for something with the exact same function. Of course, there are real resources tied to those architectural improvements, which eventually will deplete or their harvesting will cause some outrage or whatever, prices will rise, and the cheaters will step in as you suggest (wait, isn't that where we are right now?)
07-14-2011, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
BrianTH
So I have no problem with individuals making choices. But I also think we have to understand that our public policies will inevitably influence the choices people make, and we should be OK with that.
Wait, so are you suggesting we look at all the facts from every angle, identify our problems, and make moderate, reasonable, realistically attainable changes to resolve them?
07-14-2011, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
tranceFusion
If you look at each individual neighborhood, most of them are grids for at least their primary core blocks. But their entrance/exits/junction points with other neighborhoods typically not.
That is because neighborhood boundaries tend to fall along the topological breaks that made creating an overall grid impractical.
Quote:
I'm also not sure that just because something is laid out in a grid makes it efficient. That assumes the same amount of people want to be traveling in each section of the grid at any given time
Grids are actually very good at moving people around in dense areas precisely because they don't have preferred paths. If there is a clear preferred path, everyone crowds on it and it gets congested, and mobility is lost. On a grid, people are more naturally spread out to begin with, and they can also rapidly adapt--if you hit unexpected congestion on your street, you can try switching to the next street over, which is a quick process and generally doesn't require much thinking about alternative routing.
In that sense it is unfortunate we can't have an overall grid in Pittsburgh, but again, topography dictates otherwise.
Quote:
It would probably help to define efficiency - time? gas consumption? birds-eye distance traveled? I can get somewhere way further in the same amount of time on a windy suburb road when compared to idling on a city block that is jammed with traffic.. which is more efficient?
Ultimately a lot of things would have to go into an overall transportation efficiency calculation--including the cost of that windy road, how many people actually use it, and so on.
Again, though, it is true that once even a robust city grid is experiencing regular congestion, it is time to start investing in alternatives (and considering congestion charges).
07-14-2011, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
tranceFusion
The only reason that 10% higher costs bring 30% higher value is scarcity. If every house built had architectural interest, this scarcity would cease to exist.
I don't think that is quite right as you stated it. Better design ultimately has higher value because it affects people in beneficial manners, and it is perfectly possible for every person to benefit in those manners. It is true that a world of economically optimal design would be one in which we had invested enough in design such that the marginal benefits to any additional investment in design would be too small to merit that investment. But unless you are assuming we are already in such a world, then it is possible we could invest more in the design of many structures, or indeed every structure, and still achieve enough marginal benefits to make those investments worthwhile. In other words, there has to be some limit, but that doesn't mean we are anywhere near that limit.
All this is very abstract, of course. The important points are that design does matter to people, but the monetizable benefits of better design often take the form of externalities, which creates a potential free-rider problem worth solving if possible.
Quote:
Of course, there are real resources tied to those architectural improvements, which eventually will deplete or their harvesting will cause some outrage or whatever, prices will rise, and the cheaters will step in as you suggest (wait, isn't that where we are right now?)
I actually didn't quite follow this. But you seem to be assuming away any underlying benefit to that utilization of resources, which I think is an erroneous assumption. Assuming there is a benefit, the optimal equilibrium state would be the one I described above, and the issue is how to get there (or the closest approximation we can manage) from here.
07-14-2011, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
tranceFusion
Wait, so are you suggesting we look at all the facts from every angle, identify our problems, and make moderate, reasonable, realistically attainable changes to resolve them?
Yes. I expect the villagers with torches will be showing up at my door any minute to burn me for my heresies.
07-14-2011, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
tranceFusion
The only reason that 10% higher costs bring 30% higher value is scarcity. If every house built had architectural interest, this scarcity would cease to exist. Then everyone would just be spending 10% for something with the exact same function. Of course, there are real resources tied to those architectural improvements, which eventually will deplete or their harvesting will cause some outrage or whatever, prices will rise, and the cheaters will step in as you suggest (wait, isn't that where we are right now?)
I agree, I don't think every house should like be either. I also, don't think that every house should be the same looking little vinyl-sided box with the exact same floor plan either. Having a interesting mix of different designs floor plans, sizes, and pricing is ideal, and leads to the most vibrant of neighborhoods.
Just look at the neighborhoods that do this the best in the metro area: Shadyside, Squirrel hill, Southside, Oakland, probably the 4 most active and desirable neighborhoods in the city. Then there is Mt. Lebanon, Sewickley boro, Aspinwall, and Dormont which are probably the Suburbs that combine these factors as well as having viable street grids and they are some of the most desirable, walkable, and vibrant suburbs in the metro area. These are not coincidences.
07-14-2011, 11:43 AM
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Incidentally, it is tough to provide a lot of variety all at once. One of the reasons some older neighborhoods come across as more interesting is they were developed over periods of time that would seem extremely long by modern standards.
07-14-2011, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
BrianTH
Yes. I expect the villagers with torches will be showing up at my door any minute to burn me for my heresies.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein : What a filthy job.
Igor : Could be worse.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein : How?
Igor : Could be raining.
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People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)