URA has ambitious plans for Homewood and Larimer (Wilkinsburg, Swissvale: new home, best)

[h_curtis]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I very well understand your segregationism...

Here is what I said. I suggest you read my post if you want to comment on it, or what you say makes not sense.

If a property is getting too expensive for someone they move. Same goes with a middle class person or a rich person that has to move because the area got even more expensive. This isn't just about poor it goes all the way to the top in the same fashion.

As you can see, I believe everyone should be equal. If a place it too expensive you move. All the way to the top tier.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by jimmyev

The American model doesn't seem to be the American model anymore. In the larger cities - which one would think are the trendsetters - poverty has been pushed out of the urban core and further and further out. In the fastest growing metropolitan areas, it's been pushed as far as the post-WWII ring of burbs.

I agree, there are developments locally in Pgh and nationally which point to a reversal of the post-war American pattern. I'm reserving judgement for now, though, since most of these observations have been post-2007; before we can safely conclude that we're moving toward a European pattern it would be sensible to wait until we're sure what we're seeing isn't just a symptom of the Great Recession.

In Pgh itself, despite some effort to ensure core-area development is mixed-income, I'm not sure it's really making for Upstairs-Downstairs mixed neighborhoods. Residential Downtown appears to be heavily tilted toward upper incomes, it's much too early to say for the Strip, and Larryville and E. Liberty are still too much in flux to draw any conclusions. Meanwhile, just to take the eastern suburbs, if Penn Hills and Monroeville are banlieues in the making, that doesn't seem to be true of Forest Hills, Churchill, Oakmont, etc. The only parts of Allegheny Co's eastern suburbs which could genuinely be described as "American banlieues" are the Turtle Creek shoulder of the Mon Valley - North Versailles and southward.

There are some strongly suggestive signs of suburban rot and banlieues-in-waiting in other cities, but I doubt anyone can be certain the classic post-war American pattern has really flipped toward the European version until another decade has come and gone. Now, north of the border, in places like Bramladesh (formerly Brampton, Ont.) - that's another matter.

[BrianTH]

I agree it is too early to know for sure, but it is going to take a lot of lead time to put in place the measures we will need to prevent a disasterous increase in the problems associated with concentrated poverty if these patterns do emerge. So I personally think we really need to get started now--and fortunately the policies in question are mostly good ideas in any event.

[soniqV]

Could, should, would... It's not like the central planners have never been wrong before...

Seems to me if they really wanted to keep the poor around (what kind of social goal is that anyway) they wouldn't be doing anything. In fact they'd be actively discouraging investment in an area. A mixed economic neighborhood isn't made to stay that way, it's in a state of transition. Whether it's happening naturally through the market or being pushed that way by gov't, eventually the welfare queens will get priced out.

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Obviously you are immune to facts or reason

I think that might be an understatement...

[BrianTH]

Being poor isn't immutable. Other countries do a better job than we do reducing poverty and increasing class mobility, and many of the things they do could be done in the U.S.--we just choose otherwise.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

It is going to take a lot of lead time to put in place the measures we will need...fortunately the policies in question are mostly good ideas in any event.

I agree on both points - what isn't clear is whether regional officialdom can cope. Since this is an issue which will automatically cross jurisdictional boundaries, it will probably be one of those issues where the drawbacks to the balkanized structure of local gov't in W PA becomes really acute. If the Turtle Creek-Thompson Run line becomes a kind of urban Styx, who's going to tackle that - Coochie Pomposelli? No doubt he's a decent chap, but he and his ilk are hardly up to that task.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Being poor isn't immutable. Other countries do a better job than we do reducing poverty and increasing class mobility, and many of the things they do could be done in the U.S.--we just choose otherwise.

No!!! No new taxes!!! No, no, no, no. Naaahhh! NOOOOO! NOOOOOO!!!!! NNNNNNNOOOOO. No. No. No. The answer is no. Let me be clear: no. Waaah. WWWAAAHHHHH. Nay. Nyet. Never. When you say, "we're heading for an iceberg, should we change course, captain?", guess what I say: that's right - no.

I want to have Grover Norquist's baby.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

If a property is getting too expensive for someone they move. Same goes with a middle class person or a rich person that has to move because the area got even more expensive. This isn't just about poor it goes all the way to the top in the same fashion.

If you're forced to move because your neighborhood has become too expensive, how do you qualify as "rich"?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by squarian

I agree on both points - what isn't clear is whether regional officialdom can cope.

Probably not. We're going to need leadership at the state and federal level. Speaking of which . . . .

I want to have Grover Norquist's baby.

As terrible as all the recent political developments may be, I have some hope we are seeing the beginning of the final destruction of the Norquislings as a potent political force.