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Old 09-08-2011, 06:32 PM
 
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Please we need to get our current infrastructure back up to snuff before we think about building out rail transit.....When i was home last month (first time since the 15% cuts) I found out many routes are sorely lacking with terrible headways...the 75 is absolutely ridiculous now even during the rush it only comes once every 30mins or so, pre cuts it was running at a perfect 15min headway pretty much round the clock....

i really fear what will become of the Burgh if PAT needs to cut again
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:56 PM
 
20,274 posts, read 18,596,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
Please we need to get our current infrastructure back up to snuff before we think about building out rail transit.....When i was home last month (first time since the 15% cuts) I found out many routes are sorely lacking with terrible headways...the 75 is absolutely ridiculous now even during the rush it only comes once every 30mins or so, pre cuts it was running at a perfect 15min headway pretty much round the clock...
For good or ill you are really talking about two different buckets of money--the state cut PAT's operating subsidy and there are entirely different funding sources for capital investments (which typically will not allow you to switch their funds over to operating subsidies).
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:15 PM
 
Location: Wilkinsburg
1,661 posts, read 1,299,528 times
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Does anyone think that additional research or capital investments will result from the American Jobs Act (if it passes)?
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ML North View Post
Does anyone think that additional research or capital investments will result from the American Jobs Act (if it passes)?
$5 billion specifically for TIGER/TIFIA, so . . . heck yes.
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
For good or ill you are really talking about two different buckets of money--the state cut PAT's operating subsidy and there are entirely different funding sources for capital investments (which typically will not allow you to switch their funds over to operating subsidies).
But you also forget that PAT needs to maintain a certain level of service to continue to qualify for a certain amount of FED Dollars...

The FEDs are not going to keep injecting the same level of Dollars to fund Cap Projects when PAT can't afford to run the service...Right now I bet PAT would have a awfully difficult time securing FED Dollars for any new projects....
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
But you also forget that PAT needs to maintain a certain level of service to continue to qualify for a certain amount of FED Dollars...Right now I bet PAT would have a awfully difficult time securing FED Dollars for any new projects
It is not quite that simple--in fact, the feds gave a grant to help pay for planning for the Allegheny Riverfront transportation buildout:

Allegheny Riverfront gets Tiger II (federal DOT) planning grant

Which they are going to put to use:

Strip District Streetcar

But let's suppose that was true. It still doesn't mean that refusing to think about capital investments will somehow make more operating funding appear. And that is what PAT will need to prevent even more dramatic service cuts: a restoration of its operating funding.
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
It is not quite that simple--in fact, the feds gave a grant to help pay for planning for the Allegheny Riverfront transportation buildout:

Allegheny Riverfront gets Tiger II (federal DOT) planning grant

Which they are going to put to use:

Strip District Streetcar

But let's suppose that was true. It still doesn't mean that refusing to think about capital investments will somehow make more operating funding appear. And that is what PAT will need to prevent even more dramatic service cuts: a restoration of its operating funding.
Then why doesn't PAT have any projects in pipeline, everything is in study phases, hardly confirmation that any of it gets off the ground or anywhere near funding...The NSC is the LAST capital project for the Port Authority for the foreseeable future.

And it was confirmed I'm having a hard time finding the source right now, but its was on record that PAT needs to maintain a certain level of service to continue to receive funding at the same level from the FED, and it makes perfect sense why would the FED fund projects that PAT can't afford to operate...

AVRR, Oakland BRT, and the ARF Trolley Line will NEVER! get off the ground with the current state PAT is in....
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Old 09-09-2011, 05:59 AM
 
20,274 posts, read 18,596,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
AVRR, Oakland BRT, and the ARF Trolley Line will NEVER! get off the ground with the current state PAT is in....
I'm not sure all those projects will need fed money, but again, I still don't get your original point. Why, for example, shouldn't we "think about building out rail transit" in the Allegheny Riverfront/Valley by using the grant the feds gave us for that specific purpose? Refusing to use that grant won't restore service on the 75, and if and when we can potentially get access to funding, we'll need those plans to get that funding.

Generally, "we shouldn't do X until we do Y" only makes sense if not doing X actually helps you do Y.
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Old 09-09-2011, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Philly
8,857 posts, read 7,635,475 times
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it seems to me that the system beset by poor past decisions. the city would be better off with commuter rail to greensburg/latrobe than the east busway, IMO. forcing the trolleys underground downtown in an e/w alignment from the south hills doesn't add much value over just coming over the smithfield bridge. more sensible might have been an underground connection between the south hills trolleys and the fineview trolley through downtown. the current subway portion of the T actually makes a lot more sense if used with something like the spine line. it's not that PAT doesn't need capital projects, but it desperately needs projects that either lower operating costs, increase ridership, or both. adding more duplicative, disconnected service probably won't help unless it adds completely new markets and feeds current service. the downtown-oakland corridor certainly makes sense whether it's to bring students downtown or to put more people onto larger, faster vehicles. it probably makes more financial sense to run a north side bus through downtown to oakland where some riders stay on, many get off downtown, and others get on downtown heading west than to run two buses...one downtown and one to oakland.
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Old 09-09-2011, 02:22 PM
 
20,274 posts, read 18,596,813 times
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Originally Posted by pman View Post
the city would be better off with commuter rail to greensburg/latrobe than the east busway, IMO.
I honestly don't understand that. The studies have suggested the Greensburg line would maybe get 1/3 as many riders as the East Busway, far fewer of which would be City residents--in other words, such a hypothetical switch would encourage less total transit use and more sprawl. And the East Busway has helped anchor key developments, such as in East Liberty, and the communities in question are looking to leverage it even more.

Quote:
it's not that PAT doesn't need capital projects, but it desperately needs projects that either lower operating costs, increase ridership, or both. adding more duplicative, disconnected service probably won't help unless it adds completely new markets and feeds current service.
All the projects we are discussing would add rapid transit where it currently doesn't exist, feed into major existing nodes, and very likely improve average operating efficiency.

Quote:
it probably makes more financial sense to run a north side bus through downtown to oakland where some riders stay on, many get off downtown, and others get on downtown heading west than to run two buses...one downtown and one to oakland.
I'm not particularly happy with the 54 either, but the direct North Side to Oakland connection needs to be upgraded, not downgraded. Already people want to live in the North Side and work in Oakland, and even more would do that with a good transit connection. Routing those people on a slow bus is thus a serious impediment to North Side redevelopment.
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