Convention Center Hotel pretty much shelved AGAIN! (Bethlehem: how much, good hotel)

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

If it is a hopeless cause without subsidies then I'm worried about the business model in general. In terms of location, this is as good as it gets.

Again, a great location is actually part of the problem. People can walk out of the convention center and find a bunch of restaurants and bars to go to. That's all lost revenue from a convention hotel's perspective.

If it requires subsidies, better make it look great.

I agree. Part of the return we would be expecting would be in terms of marketing for the area, and to get that sort of payoff you would want an impressive structure.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Again, a great location is actually part of the problem. People can walk out of the convention center and find a bunch of restaurants and bars to go to. That's all lost revenue from a convention hotel's perspective.

Then there are two approaches.

1. Meals are including in the price of the hotel.
2. Make it a 4- or 5-star restaurant. Or even try to get it Michelin rated.

Or perhaps make the hotel a Ritz-Carleton.

[pman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

OK, but can we agree that whether or not pursuing more conventions is an idea that stands or falls on its own merits? I'm happy to agree that it isn't obviously a good idea, but I also don't think it makes sense to talk about other things that aren't mutually exclusive.

that remains to be seen. I'd be happy to sacrifice the RACP program for transportation funding if there is a cap on spending. what's the cost of construction in the city anyway? is this something that can be lowered? often times projects in philly get subsidized but the only reason they need them is the cost of construction is significantly higher than the surrounding suburbs. permitting and zoning reform woudl help alot (not to go into union issues where unions often charge more for city work than suburban work for no reason other than the permitting offices are staffed by ex union guys who hold up permits and they deliver votes, often getting political support...and when a zoning change is needed you have to get a law passed)

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Fair enough. The next step would be to independently verify the claims being made, and I admit I don't have a means of doing that.

So we have defined the issue, but I think we don't have the means of conclusively determining the truth of the issue.

yep.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

Then there are two approaches. 1. Meals are including in the price of the hotel. 2. Make it a 4- or 5-star restaurant. Or even try to get it Michelin rated.

(1) is going to cost you money unless you charge more for rooms, and potential convention organizers probably aren't going to like being forced to pay extra for meals when they could let people choose their own places and budgets instead.

(2) is also going to cost you money, and you are still going to face competition from other local places that offer different menus, different price points, and so on.

The bottomline is when you truly have a captive market, you can make a lot of money. But if you are actually facing competition, it isn't likely you will be able to make as much money.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

I'd be happy to sacrifice the RACP program for transportation funding

And we can discuss that if such a transfer in funding is ever a real option. But simply refusing to pursue RACP funding won't make that happen.

[mw12358]

[quote=BrianTH;20497669]Maybe not, but supposedly conventions have looked at Pittsburgh and then gone elsewhere because they couldn't block enough rooms. I have no way of verifying that, but that is what the SEA et al keep claiming.

I can confirm that conventions feel the hotel room supply is inadequate. For conventions with more than about 4000 people coming from out of town, visitors end up at suburban hotels (think Green Tree and even Monroeville). You can imagine the gripes when they try to get in for 8am meetings. The convention center hotel is definitely necessary for Pittsburgh to participate in even the mid-sized convention business.

[Craziaskowboi]

Our convention center looks incomplete without the hotel.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by mw12358

I can confirm that conventions feel the hotel room supply is inadequate. For conventions with more than about 4000 people coming from out of town, visitors end up at suburban hotels (think Green Tree and even Monroeville). You can imagine the gripes when they try to get in for 8am meetings. The convention center hotel is definitely necessary for Pittsburgh to participate in even the mid-sized convention business.

Atlanta has a nice clustering of hotels in its downtown area as I pointed out above. What Atlanta also has is rapid rail running from the airport to the downtown hotel district and even to hotels outside of downtown. So even if you can't find a room near our convention center, you can easily take the train to downtown for $2 (but now it is $2.50).

Really, it makes getting to and from the airport to hotels for business and convention travelers a breeze. Definitely one reason why I would choose Atlanta over Pittsburgh.

[MathmanMathman]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

(2) is also going to cost you money, and you are still going to face competition from other local places that offer different menus, different price points, and so on.

The bottomline is when you truly have a captive market, you can make a lot of money. But if you are actually facing competition, it isn't likely you will be able to make as much money.

Well, there is no getting away from "it's gonna cost you money" if you want high quality.

All I can say is that Atlanta hotels have restaurants and even the Ritz-Carlton has a very fine one. I still think a convention center hotel can have a quality restaurant to attract not only hotel guests but also locals. Fine dining would be what differentiates it from other places. There probably is a market niche as Pittsburgh is not known for high-end dining. Perhaps some perk in terms of service or price might induce hotel guests to dine "in-house".

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by MathmanMathman

There probably is a market niche as Pittsburgh is not known for high-end dining.

What people might know about and what is true are two different things.

Right near the Convention Center you have Eleven and Nine on Nine, two of the best high-end restaurants in Pittsburgh, and then a long list of other upscale and/or fun places (Seviche, Sonoma Grill, The Sharp Edge, Tonic, Meat & Potatoes, and so on).

I'm sure there is room for another high-end restaurant, but I am equally sure they wouldn't be able to charge the inflated margins that isolated convention hotels can charge, and that a lot of convention-goers would choose other options just for variety sake.