Future of Edgewood Town Center? (Washington, Swissvale: zoned, ordinance, residential)

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by squarian

Just a one-day-only performance by the Travelling Gangsta Circus.

Yeah, I thought to myself, "Not again!", and then clicked the link and found out no, it wasn't again.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by squarian

Re: the "Swissvale = yucky" thing - driving around in circles on Swissvale's backstreets yesterday (blasted one-way signs!) and I have to admit I did find myself thinking that the borough could use a tax credit for new siding and a lick of paint.

I agree--a little facades improvement could go a long way.

[groar]

guys, if a crime has ever happened in a place you must not go there or YOU WILL DIE.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by groar

guys, if a crime has ever happened in a place you must not go there or YOU WILL DIE.

Although to be fair, there are in fact constant turf wars between the K Gang and the Raptor Crew.

[stburr91]

Originally Posted by squarian

Re: the "Swissvale = yucky" thing - driving around in circles on Swissvale's backstreets yesterday (blasted one-way signs!) and I have to admit I did find myself thinking that the borough could use a tax credit for new siding and a lick of paint. There's something about that Truman-era faux-brick siding, the peeling signage, the generally well-lived-in look, that says "rustbelt post-industrial hell...just keep driving". I know Swissvale pretty well, but if I were visiting from Suburb, USA I'd probably take one look at the biz district and flashback on scenes from Serpico.

I agree, and there are plans, and attempts to secure funding to improve streetscaping in the borough. There are also a lot of efforts from several groups to improve the central business district. Now, it will likely take years to see any real improvement, but I'm glad to see that at least the local government seems to care, and make an effort.

I think one of the real keys for Swissvale, will be to find a way to get more people interested in the section near Swisshelm Park. That section is still pretty nice, and certainly could attract move middle class if it wasn't for the misconception that all of Swissvale is a rundown ghetto. So while there are many houses that look well-lived in, there are many that are well maintained. I could post picture of some of the houses in that part of Swissvale, and people would think it's Regent Square.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

That said, I do agree this would be more likely if there were more people doing it in general, and if they prettied up the walking path (just little things like better lighting, some cheerful waymarkers, improved sidewalks, and so on can help).

I agree that some improvements could help, not that it's really that bad. I think the fact that there are hills in both directions on Braddock Ave. is more of a deterrent. However, I have been seeing more people walking through there this year than ever before.

Originally Posted by BrianTH

By the way, there is also good bus service from that specific location to Squirrel Hill/Oakland, and all the stops on the East Busway (including East Liberty, Shadyside, and Downtown). Perhaps that point is more relevant to a possible apartment building, but we get at least a few out of town visitors asking here about getting around without a car.

Indeed, the great connectivity to the other East End neighborhoods, and employment centers, are Swissvale's best assets.

Originally Posted by Scientist Mom

I don' think anyone who lives nearby considers going to Edgewood Town Center a safety risk.

I agree, I have no fear of going over there.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by stburr91

I think the fact that there are hills in both directions of Braddock is more of a deterrent.

I agree that is a serious issue. It also doesn't help that people really whip through sometimes on their way to or from the freeway ramps.

Totally random sidenote, but if this project was actually done, I think it would make a difference as well:

The Regent Square Gateway Project » Nine Mile Run Watershed Association

However, I have been seeing more people walking through there this year than ever before.

I feel that is true as well.

Indeed, the great connectivity to the other East End neighborhoods, and employment centers, are Swissvale's best assets.

Yep (although it also has some cool architecture).

I agree, I have no fear of going over there.

Nor us (and in fact we take our kid with us).

[squarian]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

That seems like a bit of an exaggeration to me--in fact the hotel itself might be within line of sight for much of the walk, plus as you walk along there are generally houses visible either up past the BP, up in Regent Square, and/or over in the Greendale Ave area.

A slight exaggeration, maybe - but at the point where you're actually under 376, because of the gully where Braddock passes under the freeway, you're pretty much at the bottom of a hole. You might see the light of the BP up one side and the taillights of cars on Braddock on the other, but that's about it.

If you were visiting, and you're back from your busy day, and the hotel clerk has told you about this great hotdog and beer joint just 10 mins walk away, and you're on your way back carrying a few assorted Belgians and Germans under the belt - heading down Braddock where the apartments and houses thin out around the entrance to the Foodland/Creative Play lot, looking down into that dark well as Braddock passes under the highway, no one around (you hope)...

I've walked down some pretty dark and dodgy streets when I probably shouldn't have, but unless I happened to have an escort of Household Cavalry, that spot would give me a moment's pause. I might go on, but I'd have a good long look around first. And if I happened to be, say, a woman back from a presentation downtown, still wearing a suit and heels, I probably wouldn't get farther down Braddock than where the street lights thin out at McBrooms - just head right back, call a cab, and make a note to have tomorrow's dinner somewhere else.

I'm not really disagreeing about the wider issue, that a hotel might do well there, or that it's a pretty good location for transport, but if this hypothetical hotel wanted its guests to make the most of Regent Sq's dining, it would probably want to lay on a shuttle.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by stburr91

I think one of the real keys for Swissvale, will be to find a way to get more people interested in the section near Swisshelm Park. That section is still pretty nice, and certainly could attract move middle class if it wasn't for the misconception that all of Swissvale is a rundown ghetto. So while there are many houses that look well-lived in, there are many that are well maintained. I could post picture of some of the houses in that part of Swissvale, and people would think it's Regent Square.

Absolutely, I've said so here myself, parts of Swissvale (and I'm NOT talking about the bit "stranded" in Rgt Sq) are just fine. As you say, the western side along Swisshelm Pk is just about as nice as many of the des-res areas of the East End. But looked at from a visitor's point of view, it's cool bars, elegant cafes, tempting boutiques and intriguing galleries that appeal, and alas Swissvale is a tad short on those commodities at the present.

edit: added that crucial little NOT up there.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by groar

guys, if a crime has ever happened in a place you must not go there or YOU WILL DIE.

Yeah, sure, but then you are undead - and then you can go anywhere!

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by squarian

A slight exaggeration, maybe - but at the point where you're actually under 376, because of the gully where Braddock passes under the freeway, you're pretty much at the bottom of a hole. You might see the light of the BP up one side and the taillights of cars on Braddock on the other, but that's about it.

That's certainly true and it is part of the problem with underpasses in general--you are basically going through a tunnel.

. . . looking down into that dark well as Braddock passes under the highway, no one around (you hope) . . .

That's a where a few smart measures with lighting/waymarking/etc., and just more foot traffic in general, might help.

I've walked down some pretty dark and dodgy streets when I probably shouldn't have, but unless I happened to have an escort of Household Cavalry, that spot would give me a moment's pause. I might go on, but I'd have a good long look around first. And if I happened to be, say, a woman back from a presentation downtown, still wearing a suit and heels, I probably wouldn't get farther down Braddock than where the street lights thin out at McBrooms - just head right back, call a cab, and make a note to have tomorrow's dinner somewhere else.

Although I understand that reaction, it is actually sort of misplaced when you think about it. Most street crime of the relevant sort happens in areas where the perpetrators can expect a selection of people (aka potential victims) to be available. That particular underpass isn't much of a waterhole from a potential predator's standpoint, and although they are mostly in cars, altercations would in fact be exposed to a bunch of potential witnesses. Again, though, I recognize you are representing how many people would likely react, although I think you could address that reaction with some smart measures.

I'm not really disagreeing about the wider issue, that a hotel might do well there, or that it's a pretty good location for transport, but if this hypothetical hotel wanted its guests to make the most of Regent Sq's dining, it would probably want to lay on a shuttle.

That would probably be a good idea too, and in fact the proximity would make it possible to do a call-up service.