Move to Wilkinsburg? (Pittsburgh, Lebanon: education, street , friend)

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Elder18

I heard it the other day when I was getting lunch.

It was great. Now I truly feel like I live here.

Too funny! You've been living here for almost two months!

Thanks for proving that "yinz" isn't used very much in Pittsburgh. I suspsect that "ya'll" is used even less.

[guylocke]

Many of our hoarier rules (like not ending a sentence with a preposition) come from Latin and are not actually features of English grammar at all.

That might be so, but I know I would have failed my literature courses at Duquense if I ended my sentences in a preposition. There is writing/speaking, and then there is writing/speaking intelligently - big difference.

And as for prepositions at the end of a sentence, my professors all hated it!!

OOPS!!!!!!!!!

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by zip95

Holy crap people, It's a high school kid, not your accountant.

OMG my BFF jill is lol imho

this is what kids do

Thanks for giving me a good laugh, zip!

Unfortunately, that doesn't explain the people who are defending it as if it's acceptable speech.

[la_torquemada]

Originally Posted by boylocke

There is writing/speaking, and then there is writing/speaking intelligently - big difference.

I think you're confusing "intelligence" with "the preferences of the ruling class." I mean one could argue that the smart man does as his betters prefer if he wants to get along, but there are other definitions.

And what is wrong with kids talking in wacky slang? They've always done it. One of the ways a generation creates group cohesion. Trust me, by the time they're 35, they'll be whipping out the grammar stick with their own kids.

[PApisces]

Originally Posted by la_torquemada

I think you're confusing "intelligence" with "the preferences of the ruling class." I mean one could argue that the smart man does as his betters prefer if he wants to get along, but there are other definitions.

And what is wrong with kids talking in wacky slang? They've always done it. One of the ways a generation creates group cohesion. Trust me, by the time they're 35, they'll be whipping out the grammar stick with their own kids.

I would not be so quick to make that assumption. There are various studies that show that average IQ's are on the decline. Someone once told me that they read a study claiming that this may be in part due to the fact that the more "successful/educated" people have 1.5 children on average and "less successful/less educated" people have 5. (I have not read this study personally, so I cannot vouch for it.)

However, if you look at some of these kids that are allowed to speak "ebonics" or any other dialect or language derivative in proper situations, you will most likely find that their parents are not raising them properly. I feel comfortable extending that statement to say that their parents are not familiar with the English language either. I am not referring to the use of "ebonics" or other "slang" used amongst peer groups or on the playgrounds. There is simply no excuse for using slang terms in professional environments, period.

I have had the misfortune to have the opportunity to interview people for jobs that were not only ignorant of proper job interview ettiquette, but ignorant of most commonly accepted societal practices. The only thing that makes me cringe faster than nails on a chalkboard is the use of the word "Aks" for "ask"!!! I used to have a friend in Pittsburgh that would literally go into a store and ask if they were "hiring, an'at"!!!

I doubt there is one amongst us that doesn't have grammar or spelling issues from time to time. THAT is the fault of laziness and spell check. Sadly, I feel as though my IQ may have slipped a fraction or two because of the advent of MS Office! That has not caused me to lose all sense of professionalism or social ettiquette, however. Ignorance of proper English is NOT an excuse for stupidity.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by zip95

Holy crap people, It's a high school kid, not your accountant.

OMG my BFF jill is lol imho

this is what kids do

That's great and all, but this isn't a teenie-bopper hangout. This isn't myspace or facebook. This is a place where adults discuss adult topics with other adults. If kids want to hang out with the grown-ups, they should at least try to act like grown-ups.

[PApisces]

I just ran across this article on CNN. It would seem that the entire country is getting a bit sick and tired poor manners/public behavior. Who in God's name would want to model their behavior to match that of PRISON inmates?!?!?!?

Baggy pants crackdown goes national - CNN.com

[la_torquemada]

Use of one dialect over another has nothing to do with what is measured by an IQ test. Many of the best IQ tests contain no language at all. Use of a dialect is a class, race, or other group marker only. Dialects are as grammatically consistent as "proper" usage -- it's just that the grammar is different. Some people who speak inflected languages, like Spanish or French look down on those of us who speak positional languages like English and Chinese. Positional languages have less strict usage rules and are thus supposed to encourage/represent sloppier thinking. Do you agree with that?

And who says teenagers shouldn't come here and speak like themselves? I'm sure for the most part they'll flee in boredom, but if some are interested, who are we to discourage them with snobbery? It's the web, you know -- you're always free to apply your personal bozo filter and skip any post not to your taste.

[PApisces]

Originally Posted by la_torquemada

Use of one dialect over another has nothing to do with what is measured by an IQ test. Many of the best IQ tests contain no language at all. Use of a dialect is a class, race, or other group marker only. Dialects are as grammatically consistent as "proper" usage -- it's just that the grammar is different. Some people who speak inflected languages, like Spanish or French look down on those of us who speak positional languages like English and Chinese. Positional languages have less strict usage rules and are thus supposed to encourage/represent sloppier thinking. Do you agree with that?

.

I can agree with that, yes. My main point centered around the "when in Rome" concept. I apply the same line of thought to all people, regardless of race/national origin.

For example: I have had to ask some of my friends here in Dallas to refrain from using Spanish when we are all in conversations together. It's just impolite for people to be speaking different languages in front of people they know do not understand if they are fluent in the "common" language of the group. If I walk into a room where they are already engrossed in a conversation that I was not originally a part of, I have no problem with people using any lange they want.

The same goes with Ebonics, Swahili, or even Klingon! If you intend to get ahead, you need to learn and follow the accepted dialect of the region/society you wish to be a part of. Since we are part of a Global economy, various languages (English, Spanish, Italian, German, etc) are often used. In my opinion, "slang" such as "Ebonics" or "Pittsburghese" is not and should not be considered appropriate.

Personally, I believe that children should begin taking Foreign language beginning in Kindergarten. I regret that I was not exposed to other languages until 9th grade. That is most likely part of why I just can't grasp new languages quite so easily. It frustrates me actually. I always did very well in English and History, but I just couldn't grasp other language.

Do you see what I am saying here?

[la_torquemada]

Originally Posted by PApisces

I can agree with that, yes.

LOL, well okay then, whatever floats your boat. I personally think that line of thinking is totally specious. Though I'd agree different languages clearly color one's thinking (and may even in a way determine what it is possible for you to think), I certainly don't think speakers of one language are uniformly more intelligent than speakers of another language.

Originally Posted by PApisces

If you intend to get ahead, you need to learn and follow the accepted dialect of the region/society you wish to be a part of.

Sure, but you're assuming people speaking another dialect *want* to part of your world and are just too dumb to figure out the password.

Originally Posted by PApisces

In my opinion, "slang" such as "Ebonics" or "Pittsburghese" is not and should not be considered appropriate.

Not appropriate EVER? I think that's putting an awfully fine point on it. Are we that insecure/inflexible/unintelligent that everyone's got to talk the same all the time?

Originally Posted by PApisces

IDo you see what I am saying here?

Of course. It's a very standard argument you're making here. Perfectly fine, most people will agree. I just think there's other, more creative ways to approach the problem of communication between groups than to encourage conformity.