Move to Wilkinsburg? (Lancaster, Forest Hills, California: real estate, apartment, work)

[PApisces]

Originally Posted by la_torquemada

LOL, well okay then, whatever floats your boat. I personally think that line of thinking is totally specious. Though I'd agree different languages clearly color one's thinking (and may even in a way determine what it is possible for you to think), I certainly don't think speakers of one language are uniformly more intelligent than speakers of another language.



Sure, but you're assuming people speaking another dialect *want* to part of your world and are just too dumb to figure out the password.



Not appropriate EVER? I think that's putting an awfully fine point on it. Are we that insecure/inflexible/unintelligent that everyone's got to talk the same all the time?



Of course. It's a very standard argument you're making here. Perfectly fine, most people will agree. I just think there's other, more creative ways to approach the problem of communication between groups than to encourage conformity.

I simply cannot see the logic in expecting the vast majority of a society to change their accepted means of communication simply to cater to those who choose not to "comply".

Let's speak economically for a second. What is the financial impact that printing all of our official Federal documents in both English and Spanish is doing to our economy? Why should we as taxpayers permit the printing costs be DOUBLED just to accomodate those who choose not to learn the language of the land?

Would the extra monies spent on printing not be better spent on actually teaching the non-english speaking citizens English so they can fully participate in Society without needing special concessions? What about using that money for healthcare?

We can use semantics all day long to discuss Idealic Societies where we all come together in harmony with more languages/dialects than Babel. But, my chief concern is being addressed on the 1st and 15th of each month. We all pay Federal, State and local taxes to accommodate some people that do not want to learn our language, some people that don't want to educate themselves to change their economical situation, or a myriad of other ridiculous expenditures our Government wastes MY money on!

That's why I have a problem "Officially" embracing additional dialects into the "traditional" American structure. It's not based on xenophobia nor racism. It's economics. My Family came here from Germany 3 generations ago. In the old days, immigrants assimilated themselves to become a "part of" not "apart from" as they do now.

I am not implying that immigrants, blacks or anybody else should give up their cultural heritage. Quite the contrary. They should continue to embrace, cultivate and cherish it! Just don't force the rest of society to conform and PAY for the needs of each and every societal group that wishes to be seperated from society.

We can continue to discuss whether the currently accepted English is the best choice or worst choice, but, that will not change the fact that it IS the choice. Not only in America, but globally as well.

If a person desires is to be a successful American and contribute to the greater good of the Country as a whole, then the least they can do is participate to the best of their ability. This is a fact that we would all do well to remember, and is not directed soley towards immigrants, illegal or legal. We ALL need to keep that in mind. Why should society continue to cater to the needs of the few to the detriment of the many?

[zip95]

Originally Posted by Drover

Well great, this is just what the Pittsburgh forum needs -- yet another poster who insists on steering a thread 386 miles off-topic through 27 pages.

Thanks for the reminder of why I stopped coming around this forum in the first place.

Which poster are you talking about?

Anyway, with this topic, the truth is pretty clear.

1.) Of course ebonics or spanglish or yinzerism are dialects, as they have very strict grammatical rules.
2.) Of course dialect does not determine IQ.

3.) Of course proper English is also a dialect.

4.) Of course you need to speak the dialect of the "ruling class" if you want to join the ruling class. It's probably important to mention that the "ruling class" has been diversifying for 30 years.

[la_torquemada]

My head is goggling back and forth like Chester Cheetah here. Did I mention Spanish? Did I suggest anyone should print up the Ebonics Tax Code? (Though I do think that would make a very funny Mad TV skit...) Can you say straw man argument?

[PApisces]

Originally Posted by la_torquemada

My head is goggling back and forth like Chester Cheetah here. Did I mention Spanish? Did I suggest anyone should print up the Ebonics Tax Code? (Though I do think that would make a very funny Mad TV skit...) Can you say straw man argument?

LOL I wish CNN would delete the term "Straw man" from it's daily programming.
(For the record, points of view differing from your own are not all "straw men")

That is exactly what you were alluding to in suggesting that we need to be more "open" to embracing and accepting additional dialects in everyday life. I chose Spanish because it IS currently directly affecting the American economy. If folks want to speak Spanish as their national language, I know of a Country located just south of the border of Texas. :-)

As the saying goes: You've got to go along to get along.

But, as the OP's have noted, this topic will go nowhere, so, what's the point of continuing it further?

[la_torquemada]

Spanish is not a dialect of English. I was never talking about totally different languages. That's what makes your argument a straw man -- it's unrelated to the original topic.

[dawoud]

i used to live on ella street which is between rebecca street and the edgewood town line near the school of the deaf, if you are white, stay the hell away it is a gang infested hood, if you are black, stay the hell away, it is a gang infested hood, there are nicer parts of wilkinsburg, which was a victim of white flight in the sixties and seventies, but that ain't it..... p.s. the difference between wilkinsburg and all of the the surrounding communities except for homewood or east hills (black ghettoes) is ridiculous

[Dorian]

Originally Posted by Hopes

I've done some research on Ebonics. "Yall" is Ebonics, not slang used by a majority of Pittsburgh's population.

Ebonics is derived from Southern American English--which explains "yall" being part of Ebonics.

So, Dorian is right about the usage of "yall" depending on the neighborhood in Pittsburgh.

But Dorian is still wrong about "yinz" being suburban. "Yinz" is more of a Southside type neighborhood word.

First Yall is not ebonics it started in somewhere between Texas(which uses it the most) and mississippi. Second, Ebonics didn't technically start in the south, it got it's name on the west coast(Oakland, California). Also, the only reason that ebonics is only a dialect and not a langauge is because it is a spin off of english. Technically what we speak as a collective whole in america isn't even ENGLISH, ask the British, all american english(as it is really called) is slang to real english. So everyone can talk dialects all they want but you are speaking slang with every so called proper english sentance you speak. Oh and by the way it's just as difficult to read what some people type on here as reading the King James version of the bible or any other form of british litrature.

[Hopes]

Ebonics is a spin off of Southern American English.

Originally Posted by Dorian

First Yall is not ebonics it started in somewhere between Texas and mississippi.

Honey, "somewhere between Texas and Mississippi" is the south!

Ebonics uses the word "yall"---that's just a fact.

Originally Posted by Dorian

Second, Ebonics didn't technically start in the south, it got it's name on the west coast(Oakland, California).

Just because the education system in California created a new term for "African American Vernacular English" does NOT mean that the dialect originated in California.

Read this: Ebonics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

where you'll learn that Ebonics is just another word for this:

African American Vernacular English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

which is closely related to Southern American English.

Ya'll is part of both Ebonics and Southern American English.

The term Ebonics was coined for educational purposes. Ebonics is much easier to say than African American Vernacular English.

[jillbville]

I'm looking to move to Wilkinsburg, PA next month. I live in NYC at this time. Can anyone give me more background the area. My ex-boyfriend just brought two buildings on south Trenton Avenue and I wanted to know more about the area.

Thanks.

Jill

[nento67]

ive heard nothing good of wilkinsburg, to be blunt about it. i know that some of it's surrounding areas are even worse yet. shootings, drugs, prostiution, etc...

then again, i don't know MUCH. however, what i have seen in wilkinsburg is cheap housing, slummy streets, and rundown buildings.

but then again,
what do i know..
just what i've read and seen with my two eyes.