Move to Wilkinsburg? (Pittsburgh, Lancaster, Swissvale: property taxes, for sale, apartments)

[fleetiebelle]

Even though it's technically Wilkinsburg, I think that particular street is close enough to Regent Square and Point Breeze to not be so much of an issue. Regent Square is one of the neatest neighborhoods in the city, and that street's also close to Frick Park, the East End food co-op, and Construction Junction.

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Hmmmmm.........well, Italian, French and German are actual languages, Dorian.

There's a difference between an actual language and a dialect.

Ebonics is a dialect of American English the same way Southern American English is a dialect of American English.

A dialect is not the PROPER form of the language in which it is derived.

Jamaicans speak a dialect of English (patios) and no one criticizes and say they don't speak "proper". The French don't criticize the Haitians for speaking Creole. The poor English kids who speak Cockney English seem cool. And have you heard Cuban Spanish (far cry from Spanish spoken in Spain). Can we say "double standard"?

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by PApisces

Let's speak economically for a second. What is the financial impact that printing all of our official Federal documents in both English and Spanish is doing to our economy? Why should we as taxpayers permit the printing costs be DOUBLED just to accomodate those who choose not to learn the language of the land?

What's the big deal really? The government is saving lots of money on printing due to technology...believe me.

Would the extra monies spent on printing not be better spent on actually teaching the non-english speaking citizens English so they can fully participate in Society without needing special concessions? What about using that money for healthcare?

Perhaps that money should be used on teaching more Americans Spanish.

That's why I have a problem "Officially" embracing additional dialects into the "traditional" American structure. It's not based on xenophobia nor racism. It's economics. My Family came here from Germany 3 generations ago. In the old days, immigrants assimilated themselves to become a "part of" not "apart from" as they do now.

Times change. We live in the information age, and the globe has shrunk. 3 generations ago, you we not able to get in a jet and be halfway across the world in 12 hours. 3 generations ago, you didn't need to teleconference with your suppliers in China, etc., etc.

I am not implying that immigrants, blacks or anybody else should give up their cultural heritage. Quite the contrary. They should continue to embrace, cultivate and cherish it! Just don't force the rest of society to conform and PAY for the needs of each and every societal group that wishes to be seperated from society.

Is someone forcing Ebonics on others? Actually, forcing Spanish on others isn't that bad. Most Europeans are fluent in 2 or 3 languages. It's not totally impossible or a bad thing (like many Americans feel...I don't know why though)

We can continue to discuss whether the currently accepted English is the best choice or worst choice, but, that will not change the fact that it IS the choice. Not only in America, but globally as well.

Ok, so this proves that we are lucky...that's all. In another 300 years, the dominant language might be Chinese.

When I was in Israel, I talked to a store owner about English; and how impressed I was at his English. He said it is "the language of money". You don't learn English because it's a superior language, you learn it to be competitive. It's the choice of the world...but a self serving choice in many cases.

If a person desires is to be a successful American and contribute to the greater good of the Country as a whole, then the least they can do is participate to the best of their ability. This is a fact that we would all do well to remember, and is not directed soley towards immigrants, illegal or legal. We ALL need to keep that in mind. Why should society continue to cater to the needs of the few to the detriment of the many?

Actually, there's a lot of successful Americans out there with horrible language skills...horrible. You ever hear Beyonce talk? Jet Li's English is pretty unintelligible still. I've heard Bobby Bowden give interviews and miss core things he was trying to say.

The truth it used to be that an education was needed for someone to get ahead. Now it's the talent of finding your niche in the consumerist market. The Black community are huge consumers (for better or for worse) and will gobble up your product if you can tap into that base. People can hold onto the "standards of language" all they want, but then you'll have people like P. Diddy (or whatever his name is now) blowing that off and continuing to deposit a steady stream of checks into the bank.

[vwscottie]

Originally Posted by MissShona

Jamaicans speak a dialect of English (patios) and no one criticizes and say they don't speak "proper". The French don't criticize the Haitians for speaking Creole. The poor English kids who speak Cockney English seem cool. And have you heard Cuban Spanish (far cry from Spanish spoken in Spain). Can we say "double standard"?

Oh boy, lets start the pity party again.

Ebonics is an uneducated sounding excuse for a way to speak. Period.

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by vwscottie

Oh boy, lets start the pity party again.

Ebonics is an uneducated sounding excuse for a way to speak. Period.

Who wants your pity?

Ebonics is a dialect; plain and simple. Ebonics is just as "uneducated" as Appalachian hillbilly talk. However, I was just reading in WVU Today how an English professor was awarded a grant to research this dialect ( News and Information Services - WVU Today » Press Release ). Now, I do not doubt that if some hillbilly wrote a post in his or her vernacular, they would take a good amount of heat and ridicule. However that is how they communicate "naturally" and it is a result of their unique heritage; just like Ebonics happens to be.

I agree that the poster should have written their post in a different format being that there are few people reading this forum that could understand it. However, there are plenty of very well educated people who slip into ebonics (their cultural vernacular) while around their own people. The point of any language is to communicate effectively. In my own family, there's a different culture (Jamaican), so ebonics really isn't used. But patois is, and with some of my family members, that's what I need to slip into to get a point across well (and I've gotten A's in every English class I've ever taken). I can imagine it is the same for some other Black people as well.

[EasternerInDaWest]

Lol! How did a thread about moving to Wilkinsburg become about dialects? Here in California it's been getting rarer and rarer to speak with someone who doesn't have a thick accent from somewhere else, especially other countries. There's a large school for the deaf in our area and I'll see many deaf folks out and about having no problem communicating. Maybe we should all just learn sign language (if we have our hands and fingers - would be difficult for amputees) and not have to worry how we're trying to pronounce something. I have picked up some Chinese, Spanish, and Indian words since living out here. Someday, technology may give us speaking devices that will translate whatever is being said.
I'm thinking about flying out to Wilkinsburg to look at the real estate and places to eat. It can't be worse than parts of Oakland, Ca., East Palo Alto, or Richmond. Our friends in Baltimore, Md. bought a couple huge nice stone houses in a 'bad' neighborhood (anyone watch The Wire on HBO?) and they are doing fine...for years now. I dunno, it's just coming down to 'wherever you are, there you are.'

p.s. I do agree with MissShona about Ebonics. There are many types of dialect in our melting pot, and many are America's own versions. Since bringing my son to the "BaY Area" of California, he's picked up many words and ways of speaking that are typical of the area. Then, when talking to family and friends scattered throughout the eastern states, I get to hear many words I don't know. My dad was from Kentucky, and I can't hardly understand those relatives. Lol. :-) A friend's dad is from Boston and it took me awhile to know what he meant by 'sta da ca' when he was working on an old car I had years ago. I met a Creole guy here from Louisiana who spoke so differently I had to ask him to slow down. I think our many ways of speaking are interesting and add a colorful part to our nation's heritage. I loved the series on PBS called "Do You Speak American" Do You Speak American | PBS .

[unitedworkers]

my aunt lives in wilkinsburg and if there isn't close parking we won't go to her house, it's not the best area, i agree go more east i live in turtle creek, but edgewood, swissvale, and forest hills are good areas.

[guylocke]

I have a friend who lives in Forest Hills and there are some really cute and beautiful neighborhoods in that area. She lived in an apartment.

[EasternerInDaWest]

So, "City of Churches"...is it "City of Sin" like this traffic court site says? Wilkinsburg District Court Traffic Courts
I grew up in Delaware, lived in Philly awhile, and Lancaster Pa. city. Here in California, my 'hood is gang-covered, but they rep the 'hood and leave the locals alone...in fact, a lot of the dudes on the street here protect our area from the thieves and thugs of other areas that have been encroaching as the city here expands. Can someone be honest with me as to what to expect in Wilkinsburg? A couple dudes on the corner are no big deal. Everyday drive-by shootouts like I see here (Ca.) on the news is a different story. (sad to see kids killing each other...but many cannot aim, and end up killing innocent bystanders like elderly pop-pops and paralyzing 4-year olds..ugh) If I move to Wilkinsburg, what should I bring with me? (It's ok, be creative, and a sense of humor is also ok, truth preferred, too, if so inclined)

[EasternerInDaWest]

Originally Posted by EasternerInDaWest

So, "City of Churches"...is it "City of Sin" like this traffic court site says? Wilkinsburg District Court Traffic Courts
I grew up in Delaware, lived in Philly awhile, and Lancaster Pa. city. Here in California, my 'hood is gang-covered, but they rep the 'hood and leave the locals alone...in fact, a lot of the dudes on the street here protect our area from the thieves and thugs of other areas that have been encroaching as the city here expands. Can someone be honest with me as to what to expect in Wilkinsburg? A couple dudes on the corner are no big deal. Everyday drive-by shootouts like I see here (Ca.) on the news is a different story. (sad to see kids killing each other...but many cannot aim, and end up killing innocent bystanders like elderly pop-pops and paralyzing 4-year olds..ugh) If I move to Wilkinsburg, what should I bring with me? (It's ok, be creative, and a sense of humor is also ok, truth preferred, too, if so inclined)

I wanted to add, growing up I was very poor..pop in jail, mom workin' nights. I've seen a lot of bad, and now that I'm a lot older and can see a lot of good in what many would say is bad. I recently learned Lancaster, Pa has like 20 different gangs now...before I lived there (years ago), I had thought it was all Amish and Mennonite. lol.