Why Do People Litter? (Pittsburgh: to buy, moving to, deal)

[steindle]

Originally Posted by SorryIMovedBack

But look at Detroit, for example. Detroit is white people's history, and look at the quality of buildings that those people built, to last for generations. And look who resides there now, and how the place is destroyed.

I don't think I'm being overly sensitive to say that this is just straightforwardly racist, right?

[KingKrab]

Originally Posted by SorryIMovedBack

Interesting thread. I didn't vote, lol. I wonder, with all of the schools requiring some danged community service, could we have "Adopt a Block or Two," the way the more rural regions have "Adopt a Highway?" That might get it cleaned up to the point where people will have their cleanliness setpoint recalibrated.

Honestly, I have to say I think there's a huge, huge amount of slobbiness in the North, that you just don't see in DC and in the Southern cities. The South spends time and money to keep up appearances, and as a culture, values "old" and "historical" a great deal more than the North does. Even southern WV (Charleston & Huntington as major cities) does not allow properties in urban areas to become as crapped up as cities like Pittsburgh, New Castle, Youngstown, and Erie do.

Ethnic and socioeconomic background might have something to do with it. Old towns in western PA are now populated by ethnic groups different from the ones that built and owned and revered those historical buildings. So, perhaps there's no sense of history or importance or ownership in the current occupants that motivates them to preserve and maintain properties? I don't know. But look at Detroit, for example. Detroit is white people's history, and look at the quality of buildings that those people built, to last for generations. And look who resides there now, and how the place is destroyed. Look at Youngstown, too. Immigrants settled in homes that someone else built, then "made it" and built their own places out in the suburbs, and the good old stuff just got shoved farther down the food chain.

I just spent a week in Florida. Those southerners are just as sloppy, if not more sloppy. Not to mention their cities are much newer, sprawly, and don't even remind me of real "cities" besides the few historic ones that you mentioned. Also looking at the people, there was far more smokers, fat people, and people throwing their crap around. The beaches were beautiful, but once you came inland it was just a suburban mess.

Yeah, you are right, There are historic nice areas in Charleston, williamsburrg, etc. But you are comparing them to old Rust belt towns like Youngstown and Detroit.It is downright asinine.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Doowlle34

Steindle -- good point, although I think they to some extent, at least, the newyinzer has featured writers who have working class Pittsburgh roots. But this gets back to one of the key points I've tried to make in my few recent "yinzer-related" posts. If an individual comes from a "working class" Pittsburgh or Western Pennsylvanian background, but goes on to college and grad school, does that person cease to be a "yinzer?" Is this individual not still part of the yinzer community?

When I was growing up around here, the term "yinzer" wasn't used as much as it is today. I wouldn't say it was a term that decribed the working class, although lots of working class were yinzers, they weren't all yinzers. The term is more about a style. They certainly need to talk the talk. All those Pittsburgh terms you see printed on the shirts and such were terms yinzers would say. "Hey yinz guys want to go dahntahn anat", comes to mind. Roaming around with an Iron City wife beater on with a mustard stain also comes to mind. Not all hard working people were yinzers. That isn't what that was all about. Most people in our region weren't yinzers, but there were areas that they were at a higher percentage. Millvale, Sharpsburg, Etna, Lawrenceville and the Nothside come to mind. I don't think there are nearly as many yinzers today as in years past, but they are still around.

[gg]

Originally Posted by KingKrab

I just spent a week in Florida. Those southerners are just as sloppy, if not more sloppy. Not to mention their cities are much newer, sprawly, and don't even remind me of real "cities" besides the few historic ones that you mentioned. Also looking at the people, there was far more smokers, fat people, and people throwing their crap around. The beaches were beautiful, but once you came inland it was just a suburban mess.

Being someone that lived in Florida for years, this is about as far from the truth in my experience as it could be. By the way, Florida is a huge state. How do you figure you visiting one part or a couple parts and claim they have as much litter as we do? You must have been hanging around Overtown. Most all over Orlando is very clean. Sarasota is very clean. Venice, FL is very clean. Naples, clean. Tampa isn't as clean, but cleaner than Pittsburgh.

I call BS.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

When I was growing up around here, the term "yinzer" wasn't used as much as it is today. I wouldn't say it was a term that decribed the working class, although lots of working class were yinzers, they weren't all yinzers. The term is more about a style. They certainly need to talk the talk. All those Pittsburgh terms you see printed on the shirts and such were terms yinzers would say. "Hey yinz guys want to go dahntahn anat", comes to mind. Roaming around with an Iron City wife beater on with a mustard stain also comes to mind. Not all hard working people were yinzers. That isn't what that was all about. Most people in our region weren't yinzers, but there were areas that they were at a higher percentage. Millvale, Sharpsburg, Etna, Lawrenceville and the Nothside come to mind. I don't think there are nearly as many yinzers today as in years past, but they are still around.

I moved back here in 1999, and until a guy who is now my best friend moved here in 2003, I never heard people actually talking about "yinzers." This friend had bought some Yinzer Dictionary, and thought he was just the height of yinz, moving here and being able to talk all "redd up the room" 'n' "dahntahn" 'n' "'at." That's when I started noticing the Yinzburgh stores in the Strip. Eventually I found this place, where a lot of yuns (my preferred, BITD spelling) talk about yinz 'n' 'at.

If it weren't for city-data.com and my friend (who still talks this way "ironically"), I probably wouldn't be aware of yinzerness at all.

[KingKrab]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Being someone that lived in Florida for years, this is about as far from the truth in my experience as it could be. By the way, Florida is a huge state. How do you figure you visiting one part or a couple parts and claim they have as much litter as we do? You must have been hanging around Overtown. Most all over Orlando is very clean. Sarasota is very clean. Venice, FL is very clean. Naples, clean. Tampa isn't as clean, but cleaner than Pittsburgh.

I call BS.

I don't care if you call it BS or not. Florida is a sprawly state. Yes, some of the communities are clean. The fact is most of the urban areas arn't nearly as old as Pennsylvania. Yes, I realize Florida has historic areas, but the urban areas are mad eup of so much different structures it isn't even a comparison. They both have majorly different histories, make up, and urban structures. So call me BS as much as you want. I find comparing florida to PA like comparing Apples to Oranges. Florida has it's nice parts, and it has it's ghetto parts. Just as you said, it is a huge state. Comparing Parts of the south to the N.E. and pin pointing Youngstown, Detroit, and parts of Pittsburgh is BS.

[gg]

Originally Posted by KingKrab

I don't care if you call it BS or not. Florida is a sprawly state. Yes, some of the communities are clean. The fact is most of the urban areas arn't nearly as old as Pennsylvania. Yes, I realize Florida has historic areas, but the urban areas are mad eup of so much different structures it isn't even a comparison. They both have majorly different histories, make up, and urban structures. So call me BS as much as you want. I find comparing florida to PA like comparing Apples to Oranges. Florida has it's nice parts, and it has it's ghetto parts. Just as you said, it is a huge state. Comparing Parts of the south to the N.E. and pin pointing Youngstown, Detroit, and parts of Pittsburgh is BS.

This is a Pittsburgh forum, not a PA state forum. Therefore, you seemed to be comparing Pittsburgh to the entire state of Florida. That can't be done. Florida is huge. If you want to say, Miami is dirtier, or Tampa or whatever, that would make more sense. The entire state of Florida isn't dirty. I am there all the time and it is cleaner as a whole than Western PA. No comparison. I was a demographic manager there for a while, to give you an idea of my knowledge of that place.

Oh the oldest city in the US is in Florida. St. Augustine

Not defending Florida. Lots of Miami is a mess as well as Tampa. The East Coast can be very seedy and not very nice. West Coast seems a bit better overall, but there are parts of Sarasota that are very bad as well as Tampa.

[Caladium]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

When I was growing up around here, the term "yinzer" wasn't used as much as it is today.

I wonder if that's a sign that new people are moving in? When an area is mostly one group of people there's no need to notice it-.

[gg]

Originally Posted by Caladium

I wonder if that's a sign that new people are moving in? When an area is mostly one group of people there's no need to notice it-.

I don't know if Pittsburgh was majority "yinzer", but there are less today, because a industry shift. I don't think it is because people are moving in either. People aren't. More like they are dying off and the kids are not carrying that on as much. They are still out there, but they don't talk like they did back then. I am not kidding, those shirts printed up that have all those words in it. That was as real as it gets. You would hear all that and then some. I don't hear that anymore much at all.

Pretty much the neighborhoods that you think of today as yinzer areas, were like that in the '70s to a greater degree if compared to today. For example, most all of Morningside, Millvale, Etna, Verona and Sharpsburg would be heavy yinzer. More affluent areas hardly had a yinzer in the neighborhoods at all, just like today.

I think what has happened to make the term, "yinzer" a popular thing was the fact that there are fewer and there is a history to it. Being a "yinzer" back in the day wasn't a bad thing. They were VERY neighborhood oriented and had your back to the point, there were songs written about them. "Try and lay your hand on a Pittsburgh Steeler Fan", comes to mind. That was about the yinzer, because they would stick together like glue and were tough and physical. Neighborhoods in Pittsburgh were always pretty tight, but you wouldn't want to roll into some yinzer bar and start mouthing off. Not a good idea.

[jay5835]

I remember hearing the word Hunky being used to describe those who said "yuns" rather than yinzer.