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Old 10-10-2011, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Portland, OR
4,262 posts, read 3,921,342 times
Reputation: 2852
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishvan View Post
OH, I didn't realize you had one...Sorry.
+1
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Virginia
18,717 posts, read 14,699,415 times
Reputation: 42325
Argggh!!!!!! I'm losing patience (which means I'm also losing sympathy for this group) Your link leads to a video and an article that states that the Chicago group has demands but of course doesn't say what they are. You have to go to yet another link to see what they are.

I really don't understand why you guys are being so coy. Since you know what the demands are, can't we just take the easier route and post them?

I really want to continue being sympathetic to this movement, but you guys are making it so difficult. No more links please, just post the list.
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Old 10-10-2011, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Mexican War Streets
1,300 posts, read 839,244 times
Reputation: 907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caladium View Post
Argggh!!!!!! I'm losing patience (which means I'm also losing sympathy for this group) Your link leads to a video and an article that states that the Chicago group has demands but of course doesn't say what they are. You have to go to yet another link to see what they are.

I really don't understand why you guys are being so coy. Since you know what the demands are, can't we just take the easier route and post them?

I really want to continue being sympathetic to this movement, but you guys are making it so difficult. No more links please, just post the list.
I find your desire for this movement to define itself on your terms strange. Once it's labelled, it can be categorized and then dismissed. Your frustration and lack of patience might be helpful though in order for you to channel some of the emotion that is driving the protests.

This was among the best analysis that I've seen:
While I will readily confess I find it odd as something of a Burkean that I am sympathetic to these protestors, they are not looking to trot out the guillotines, in the main (though I did spot a "Behead the Fed" sign!), but rather, they have smelled the radicalism of the body blows dealt to a representative democratic system presented by almost unfettered oligarch-like behavior among too many elites wholly disconnected from, yes, the 99% they speak of. They are acting to secure conservative aims of re-balancing a society that is becoming dangerously unmoored and increasingly bent asunder. They want accountability and dignity and prospects. Their leaders have failed them. So they have taken to the street to lead themselves.
It will not be easy in the months ahead (the encroachments of winter alone will prove a big test), but they have started something that has real potential, and should be lauded for it, and indeed urged to carry on. If so, they may accomplish something, even possibly something historic. In this goal, in my view, they should not immediately fall prey to pressure that they must issue some long laundry list of ‘demands’ that might risk ideologically ring-fencing them some and/or stealing the spontaneity of their movement, while resisting too close associations with old-line standard-bearers of the left like the unions. They have created something quite new on the American political scene, and should stoke it during these early days in a manner strictly of their choosing.

The Belgravia Dispatch: Occupy Wall Street: An Early Assessment

Sorry to put you through the exasperation of following a link.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Virginia
18,717 posts, read 14,699,415 times
Reputation: 42325
OK, you guys win (I guess). I don't know why you don't want to communicate a simple list of what it is you want, but I'm burnt out on asking. Whatever. You can now change my position from sympathetic to fed up.

I guess the game is to get people make an emotional commitment to an idea before knowing what the details are. I'm not playing that game. I lean towards the sentiments that this group expresses but I'm very turned off by this strategy. I sure wish a group would come along that would just say what they mean, mean what they say, and spit it out instead of playing coy games.
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Old 10-10-2011, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh PA
1,128 posts, read 964,533 times
Reputation: 536
I agree that is is questionable at how undefined the move it quite far, which is why I have yet to either agree or disagree with it. I will probably check it out but I do agree that many in the protest aren't quite sure what is going on, which if I am not mistakes is what u are getting it
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:37 PM
 
20,274 posts, read 18,040,699 times
Reputation: 2821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caladium View Post
So.... can you please tell us the specific goals this group has. What specific actions they want.
There isn't a single group organizing these protests. But some of the most common policy proposals are a financial transactions tax, more widespread debt cancellation, and more investigations and prosecutions of alleged Wall Street crimes.
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:45 PM
 
20,274 posts, read 18,040,699 times
Reputation: 2821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caladium View Post
I guess the game is to get people make an emotional commitment to an idea before knowing what the details are. I'm not playing that game.
I can understand why you wouldn't like it, but it is a proven strategy. Most people don't respond to policy statements, and as another poster pointed out it is artificially limiting to suggest adherence to the movement requires agreement with a certain policy list. Meanwhile, what you are dismissing as the "emotional" is what actually builds populist movements into something with real influence (although I would say it is not just emotional but conceptual as well--you can have a general idea of what you think the problem is without having a five-point plan for how to solve that problem).
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:54 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
11,171 posts, read 7,296,005 times
Reputation: 3588
Quote:
Originally Posted by raubre View Post
+1
+2
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:06 PM
 
20,274 posts, read 18,040,699 times
Reputation: 2821
Incidentally, Occupy Seattle and Occupy Chicago are in the process of winnowing down their demands:

Demands | OccupySeattle (http://occupyseattle.org/demands - broken link)

Our PROPOSED grievances | Occupy Chicago
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:01 PM
 
Location: Virginia
18,717 posts, read 14,699,415 times
Reputation: 42325
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
I can understand why you wouldn't like it, but it is a proven strategy.
For Amway. Which is kind of ironic since this is supposed to be an anti-corporate group.

But oh well, I suppose it's a strategy lots of groups use. I'm turned off today but over minor issues. So I'll give this group a few months and see if they come up with goals that I like. I do like eliminating the Bush tax cuts, and if that becomes a primary goal I might become more of a fan. Gotta say, though, that I'm not too impressed right now.
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