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Old 10-12-2011, 11:22 AM
 
20,274 posts, read 18,875,311 times
Reputation: 2827

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobick View Post
SCR bait
One major problem with Ferguson's thesis: the Tea Party and their captive politicians want to end Social Security and Medicare for later generations, not themselves (they always "grandfather" themselves in). That's just locking in the intergenerational theft to the maximum extent possible, not ending it.

Now maybe he thinks there is an implied answer to that critique in his proposal that "[t]he answer is to occupy the Tea Party—and wrest it from the grumpy old men who currently run it." But there will actually be nothing left of the Tea Party but its name if you do that, and it is not clear to me that the Tea Party brand itself is really worth saving at this point (public sentiment on the Tea Party has turned sharply negative).

Of course the other major problem with Ferguson's thesis is that social insurance of various forms is highly efficient at addressing various risks that everyone, including these young people, will sooner or later face. So while I agree young people should be thinking about how to avoid paying an undue amount of the bill for the social insurance that we provide to older people, they shouldn't be throwing the baby out with the bathwater by eliminating social insurance programs for themselves.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:26 AM
 
4,095 posts, read 3,261,095 times
Reputation: 1681
What is the source for that graph, Brian?
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:45 AM
 
482 posts, read 521,404 times
Reputation: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
One major problem with Ferguson's thesis: the Tea Party and their captive politicians want to end Social Security and Medicare for later generations, not themselves (they always "grandfather" themselves in). That's just locking in the intergenerational theft to the maximum extent possible, not ending it.

(public sentiment on the Tea Party has turned sharply negative).

What is your source for these statements? I've only heard statements about reforming the programs, not ending them, even for later generations.

The only times I've heard "the tea party wants to kill SS and medicare" is from an extreme left democrat trying to scare older people.

Personally, I'd rather choose where my money went (either my own 401k, or a personal account with the government that doesn't get touched). That way, if it's not there for retirement, I have no one to blame but myself.

However, that will provide no solution for today's problems. We definitely need reform for these programs to sustain them into the future, but how is that done effectively?
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:52 AM
gg gg started this thread
 
Location: Pittsburgh
11,661 posts, read 7,995,892 times
Reputation: 4230
Gotta say one thing. This thread is one wild conversation. Seems the protest has gotten people to think and voice regardless of one's feelings.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:55 AM
 
Location: ELFS
5,020 posts, read 3,386,336 times
Reputation: 4343
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKyank View Post
No, I just happened to live for a time in a country that has some pretty harsh penalties (ok, not death - & yes I was being a bit overkill - though police killings of perpetrators in the act wasn't looked at unfavorably in any way) for crimes against property & likewise such crimes were very rare, whereas here they aren't all that rare and the penalties are light (mainly because the judicial system terms them 'victimless crimes'.
Maybe you should go back to that country, since you seem to prefer it. I promise not to miss you.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:03 PM
 
3,649 posts, read 2,255,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay5835 View Post
Maybe you should go back to that country, since you seem to prefer it. I promise not to miss you.
Overall the US is better indeed, but it's silly to say that the US does everything superior then the rest of the world & can learn from no one, though if you prefer to be a flag waving xenophobe scoffing at those foreigners & their un-American ideas then by all means it's you're prerogative.

& likewise I'd hope that you wouldn't bother wasting any of your time missing someone you don't know regardless of the circumstances.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:10 PM
 
3,649 posts, read 2,255,894 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobick View Post
You're not using that term correctly. The American legal system does not view property crime as "victimless"..
It's not codified as such, but ive seen enough sentencings where the term is used by the sentencing judge when justifying the issuing of a light penalty/ affirming a plea bargain to know it's a commonly used in practice.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:12 PM
 
20,274 posts, read 18,875,311 times
Reputation: 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday View Post
What is the source for that graph, Brian?
Sorry, I actually meant to provide a link then forgot:

Dan Ariely Blog Archive Wealth Inequality

The data source is a survey conducted by a couple professors (Harvard and Duke I believe).
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:12 PM
 
Location: ɥbɹnqsʇʇıd
4,479 posts, read 3,225,514 times
Reputation: 3284
Just out of curiosity, where did you live Yank? I lived in Ireland for a Study Abroad semester and that was awesome. However, their economy has tanked in recent years due to a pro-capitalist system not unlike ours. Perhaps we can learn a few things from one another.
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Old 10-12-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: ELFS
5,020 posts, read 3,386,336 times
Reputation: 4343
Quote:
Originally Posted by UKyank View Post
Overall the US is better indeed, but it's silly to say that the US does everything superior then the rest of the world & can learn from no one, though if you prefer to be a flag waving xenophobe scoffing at those foreigners & their un-American ideas then by all means it's you're prerogative.
My not having a penchant for shooting protesters makes me a flag-waving xenophobe? You might want to call the school you graduated from and ask for a full refund for your logic class, as they obviously didn't teach it very well.
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