East Liberty... (Pittsburgh, Penn: living in, costs, gym)

[Steelers10]

Originally Posted by wpipkins

I was born in 1975. I remenber older black people refer to urban renewal as negro removal. I never understood the term until I got older and studied Pittsburgh's black history at CCAC. I had an excellent professor by the name of Edna B. Mackenzie. She was one of the first black women to attend Pitt and later became an editor for the Pittsburgh Courier. She also was on the state commitee that started the blue historic markers around PA.

Man you had her as a professor?!? I didn't know who she was but when I looked her up she was a pretty important civil rights pioneer. The things you uncover when you ask questions! Apparently she's appeared in a couple of PBS documentaries but I don't know if I could find them on video because they are a few years old. It's sad that the first thing you find when you look up Edna Mackenzie is her obituary. But I guess that is why it is so important to keep oral tradition alive in this context.

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Oh look, another thread derailed by racism.

From your comment it is clear that you didn't even bother to read the first paragraph of my post, much less the article from the Post-Gazette (newspaper articles are written on a middle school reading level).

So oh look, another thread derailed by ignorance and adult illiteracy.

[pman]

Originally Posted by wpipkins

I was born in 1975. I remenber older black people refer to urban renewal as negro removal. I never understood the term until I got older and studied Pittsburgh's black history at CCAC. I had an excellent professor by the name of Edna B. Mackenzie. She was one of the first black women to attend Pitt and later became an editor for the Pittsburgh Courier. She also was on the state commitee that started the blue historic markers around PA.

FWIW,it's not specific to Pittsburgh, it was derisively known as negro removal in Philadelphia as well. most notably in society hill which at the time was a black neighborhood and somewhat rundown (being the old section of town, whites had long since abandoned it). they went in using urban renewal funds, moved the people, knocked everything down, and rebuilt. it's been widely hailed as a success in planning circles but what happened to the people living there? many were renters and ended up in public housing, I'd venture to say they were worse off. and that's the success story, urban renewal funds demolished large swaths there just as in east liberty with about as much success, mostly in north philadelphia, which is now most famous for crime and poverty. even today it's littered with vacant lots that used to be home to buildings, owned by an alphabet soup of state and city agencies that had no clear way to get them off the books...and interestingly, the area most impacted by it, is also the area that probably has the most "reverse racism." urban renewal was a war like approach to rebuilding cities and largely benefitted politically connected developers, demolition contractors, and politicians who looked like they were doing something. I walked from downtown milwaukee over to the pabst mansions. inside the pabst mansion were pictures of the street on which it is located. today it looks like a grand old mansion largely out of place except for nearby marquette but the photos show a grand blvd lined with incredible buildings. one might venture to guess that was urban renewal at work, demolishing grand structures from the past to put up a parking lot.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by Steelers10

From your comment it is clear that you didn't even bother to read the first paragraph of my post, much less the article from the Post-Gazette (newspaper articles are written on a middle school reading level).

So oh look, another thread derailed by ignorance and adult illiteracy.

Real clever. No one your persecution complex here, this thread is about East Liberty's redevelopment.

[Steelers10]

Originally Posted by pman

FWIW,it's not specific to Pittsburgh, it was derisively known as negro removal in Philadelphia as well. most notably in society hill which at the time was a black neighborhood and somewhat rundown (being the old section of town, whites had long since abandoned it). they went in using urban renewal funds, moved the people, knocked everything down, and rebuilt. it's been widely hailed as a success in planning circles but what happened to the people living there? many were renters and ended up in public housing, I'd venture to say they were worse off. and that's the success story, urban renewal funds demolished large swaths there just as in east liberty with about as much success, mostly in north philadelphia, which is now most famous for crime and poverty. even today it's littered with vacant lots that used to be home to buildings, owned by an alphabet soup of state and city agencies that had no clear way to get them off the books...and interestingly, the area most impacted by it, is also the area that probably has the most "reverse racism." urban renewal was a war like approach to rebuilding cities and largely benefitted politically connected developers, demolition contractors, and politicians who looked like they were doing something. I walked from downtown milwaukee over to the pabst mansions. inside the pabst mansion were pictures of the street on which it is located. today it looks like a grand old mansion largely out of place except for nearby marquette but the photos show a grand blvd lined with incredible buildings. one might venture to guess that was urban renewal at work, demolishing grand structures from the past to put up a parking lot.

I wonder what role the state government of PA played in these tactics. I always get a sense from these forums that there is very much a disconnect between Eastern and Western Pennsylvania. However I found some really old articles about where my family was from in Harrisburg where urban renewal projects date back to just before WWII. Were they doing a test run in the state capital to determine these "slum clearance" projects' feasibility in Pittsburgh and Philly (and Allentown)? One article from 1938 said that the PA State Housing Authority Executive Director received $100 million for housing projects. Were these slums cleared and projects built in East Liberty simply to justify receiving the check from the federal government?

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Real clever. No one your persecution complex here, this thread is about East Liberty's redevelopment.

Thank you for reinforcing my point. Since you are on the thread, I encourage you to go back to my initial post and read the article on East Liberty. It is a very interesting piece.

[wpipkins]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Oh look, another thread derailed by racism.

HuH! I don't get it.....

[wpipkins]

Originally Posted by LIRefugee

I look forward to trying Union Pig & Chicken. Rah rah East Liberty!

I thought the Union Pig & Chicken was on the oppisite side of the street. The complex across Penn was redeveloped as well. I assumed they would fill that space. Last week I noticed it was located in the spot of the old chinese buffet next to Eastminster Church. Its pretty small and looks cool. I do not eat barbeque, but will try some of their other dishes.

[wpipkins]

For all of you do it yourselfer's.

Did anyone notice the expanded machine and tool rental section at the East Liberty Home Depot? You can rent just about any tool needed for projects.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Steelers10

I wonder what role the state government of PA played in these tactics. I always get a sense from these forums that there is very much a disconnect between Eastern and Western Pennsylvania. However I found some really old articles about where my family was from in Harrisburg where urban renewal projects date back to just before WWII. Were they doing a test run in the state capital to determine these "slum clearance" projects' feasibility in Pittsburgh and Philly (and Allentown)? One article from 1938 said that the PA State Housing Authority Executive Director received $100 million for housing projects. Were these slums cleared and projects built in East Liberty simply to justify receiving the check from the federal government?

there probably is a disconnect of some kind, but it's greatly exaggerated not only in these forums, but in people's minds. most people are often familiar with only one side or the other so they perceive some sort of disconnect even if, in reality, there is much in common. as noted, the same thing was at play in milwaukee and numerous other places. these were ideas that, as I understand, date to the modernists disdain for things old. although ideas do have consquences, it was federal money that gave these ideas life, and that money started flowing during the great depression under the new deal, who got their ideas from people like robert moses...they also bought into GM/midernist plans which called for garden apartments, single family housing, and everything connected by highways...this vision was prominently on display at the 1938 world's fair and was swalled wholesale by the new deal which saw a way to revive the economy by destroying the american way of life and rebuilding it. I believe the state government was the machinery through which the feds funneled the money for urban renewal (even today the authorities are state run) while local power brokers decided where to spend and who got their lives "improved." these ideas were never very successful but they grew exponentially in the post war period. in one section of philadelphia they built the richard allen homes in 1941 (the first were the tasker homes in 1938 which were considered a success during their first years...but they were home to soldiers, after the soldiers left they quickly fell into disrepair and crime)...a generation later, they came back and demolished the area around richard allen because it was "blighted." now, obviously if urban renewal had worked in the 40's, the area around it wouldn't have gotten worse, but they continued throwing good money after bad. even today the use of the "blight" designation to use eminent domain is abused (though without the federal dollars it's less ominous). anyway, it seems that eastern and western cities have very much the same experience during this era.

[BrianTH]

Yep, these disasterous "urban renewal" projects were part of a national movement--in fact, some of the same planners and same firms who were involved in Pittsburgh were involved in similar projects in cities like New York.

By the way, every level of government was involved in some way. But if you were looking for the real locus of decision-making when it came to the exact nature of Pittsburgh's "urban renewal" projects, it was the bipartisan working group forged by David L. Lawrence and Richard King Mellon. The main institutional form was (and still is, but with a much diminished role) the Allegheny Conference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegheny_Conference

[Steelers10]

Pretty interesting how a populist like Lawrence influenced R.K. Mellon but I guess it could be equally said that Mellon operated Lawrence as an enforcer. They were ambitious to be sure but I don't perceive them exactly as visionaries. It seems as if the decision to essentially raze the Lower Hill District was more of political expedience (Lawrence could get away with it) rather than any sound development initiative. Certainly there was no expectation that dilapidated buildings be left for eventual rehabilitation (I don't think people thought like that back in the 50s) but I think Pittsburgh lost some of its distinctiveness. IDK but it seems like Pittsburgh should have been more than just a larger Cincinnati or Buffalo.