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Old 11-09-2011, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
6,327 posts, read 9,101,134 times
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While downtown has changed for the better since I started being there often since 2005, I wouldn't call it bustling during the weekends or weeknights unless something is going on.
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradjl2009 View Post
I wouldn't call it bustling during the weekends or weeknights unless something is going on.
I'd tend to agree "bustling" would typically be an overstatement, although I would also note that "unless something is going on" is a significant caveat, because more and more events are being scheduled Downtown (another trend I expect to continue).
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
I'd tend to agree "bustling" would typically be an overstatement, although I would also note that "unless something is going on" is a significant caveat, because more and more events are being scheduled Downtown (another trend I expect to continue).
This is true about more events Downtown. Even though there has been some talk recently about Downtown going downhill again because of the closing of Saks, at the end of the day most people won't even notice that store is gone. Especially with the recently renovated Market Square and the start of the construction of the Tower at PNC.
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Leesburg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Again, I would agree "need" is too strong a word.

On the other hand, I would disagree there is no good that can be done in this area. It is only recently that net migration to the region has turned positive, and very likely at least some of that trend is being driven by Pittsburgh's recent relatively favorable labor markets, a condition that may not last forever. To help solidify these trends, I think it would be useful to make it easier and more attractive for young professionals to move to Pittsburgh from outside the region and work, among other places, Downtown. Being able to offer an affordable walking commute (a walking commute is nice in general, and in particular for newcomers to the City) in a relatively vibrant Downtown would be useful toward that end.

In other words, I see Downtown in the future as something of a "gateway" neighborhood. Eventually I would expect many of these newcomers to move out to various other neighborhoods, particularly as they start families. But having Downtown, with all its employers, also be a very convenient place to start out in Pittsburgh would be helpful.



Fortunately these are not mutually exclusive ideas (a better visit/play CBD AND better connectivity between the CBD and other established neighborhoods).



Of course it isn't a "fetish". As I noted in a followup post, Downtown is uniquely situated in that it is already the center of our transportation network, already the densest and largest employment center in the region, and already proximate to a large collection of regionally-important amenities. More residents Downtown will therefore tend to have the highest marginal impact on our overall efficiency.

Again, I fully acknowledge that not everyone can or will live Downtown, so in no respect should this be taken as suggesting we should neglect developing other residential neighborhoods in the core area. So it is absolutely true all such developments can help improve our regional efficiency, but it is also true that more residents Downtown specifically would significantly help--probably more so, resident for resident, than any other place.
Okay, we agree that "need" is too strong a word. But I don't see you building a case for "important". Better in the CBD than elsewhere? I think it is redundant. All the things you like the CBD to do is already being done elsewhere in the city. I'm ambivalent. But I wouldn't dedicate scarce resources to making it happen.
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Old 11-09-2011, 04:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by globalburgh View Post
Better in the CBD than elsewhere? I think it is redundant. All the things you like the CBD to do is already being done elsewhere in the city.
But again, nowhere else is the center of our transportation network in the same way, or has the same sort of jobs cluster, or has quite the same nearby collection of regional amenities.

Honestly, this seems like a no-brainer to me--it would obviously be helpful, if not actually necessary, for more people to live in or visit this particular location.

Quote:
But I wouldn't dedicate scarce resources to making it happen.
Fortunately most of the funding these days is coming from private investors, the PDP, or other Downtown stakeholders, and in that sense Downtown isn't really taking any resources away from other places. To the extent other public authorities are involved, it is typically on projects that will clearly benefit more than just Downtown's businesses and residents.

I also think it is worth noting that relative to land or residency, Downtown already contributes a hugely disproportionate share of property taxes (interactive version at link, courtesy of Chris Briem):

Many Eyes : Effective Taxable Assessed Property Value by City of Pittsburgh



I don't think that means the City (or County) owes anything to Downtown, but it does suggest that further enhancing property values Downtown, at least when the public is only making a small investment itself, isn't a bad idea from a revenue perspective.
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Leesburg
799 posts, read 1,284,247 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
But again, nowhere else is the center of our transportation network in the same way, or has the same sort of jobs cluster, or has quite the same nearby collection of regional amenities.

Honestly, this seems like a no-brainer to me--it would obviously be helpful, if not actually necessary, for more people to live in or visit this particular location.
I don't see the connection between the unique attributes of the Pittsburgh CBD and something special resulting from a more vibrant nightlife in that district. Any goal that you have mentioned, I can get the same results elsewhere in the city. That's not to say that a more vibrant nightlife downtown would be a bad thing. Just that I wouldn't bother to put any eggs in that basket.

If you get more young adults working downtown, then you will get more young adults living and playing downtown. I'm not a fan of place making strategies, particularly as a strategy to attract young talent. The Field of Dreams approach doesn't work.
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Old 11-09-2011, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Kittanning
4,692 posts, read 8,988,628 times
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Downtown is important. It is the "heart" of the city. It is the most historic neighborhood. It has the most important and impressive buildings and architecture. The major company headquarters are located here, for the most part. It is the most visible part of the city, due to the skyline. All roads lead to downtown. As downtown improves, so will the central neighborhoods close to it. We need to get over the notion that Shadyside or Squirrell Hill, or some other neighborhood, is more important than downtown. They don't hold a candle!
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:02 PM
 
5,894 posts, read 6,842,546 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alleghenyangel View Post
Downtown is important. It is the "heart" of the city. It is the most historic neighborhood. It has the most important and impressive buildings and architecture. The major company headquarters are located here, for the most part. It is the most visible part of the city, due to the skyline. All roads lead to downtown. As downtown improves, so will the central neighborhoods close to it. We need to get over the notion that Shadyside or Squirrell Hill, or some other neighborhood, is more important than downtown. They don't hold a candle!
Not saying that downtown isn't important, but lets face it, there's a reason that no one chooses to live there - including all the people on this board who say people should be living there yet they themselves don't.

Downtown is important for the jobs there, it does this very well; the neighborhoods are important for the residential, amenities & nightlife they offer and they do that very well.
Yes, Downtown can offer some of that as well, and I see it moving in a positive direction, but chastising people for not loving downtown more then their neighborhood for more then their place of work isnt going to help anything.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Kittanning
4,692 posts, read 8,988,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UKyank View Post
Not saying that downtown isn't important, but lets face it, there's a reason that no one chooses to live there - including all the people on this board who say people should be living there yet they themselves don't.
Two reasons I don't live downtown:

1.) I don't feel like paying $1000/month for an apartment, when I can own a house for $10,000.

2.) I don't feel like paying an additional $200 a month for parking.

I have considered living in the May Building, at $500 a month. But I really, really don't want to go back to paying rent. I love owning a house! So I guess you could say that saving money and security of home ownership is more important to me than vitality of location.

There are a lot of people who think it's worth it to pay $1000/month to live downtown, though, which is proof that living downtown is highly desirable.

Last edited by PreservationPioneer; 11-09-2011 at 09:50 PM..
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:43 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,877,652 times
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Originally Posted by globalburgh View Post
I don't see the connection between the unique attributes of the Pittsburgh CBD and something special resulting from a more vibrant nightlife in that district.
So I'm actually interested in more people living in Downtown and visiting Downtown, and generally I'd agree that no special effort needs to be made specifically with respect to nightlife--that will follow, and indeed already is following, from increased residency and visitation, which in turn will encourage more residents and visitors, creating a self-reinforcing cycle.

So if you thought I was suggesting otherwise--that some particular effort needed to be made to support nightlife specifically--then that may explain part of our apparent disagreement.

Quote:
Any goal that you have mentioned, I can get the same results elsewhere in the city.
Really? One of my goals is just to have more people living within a short walk of Downtown jobs. How could you get that result elsewhere in the City?

Again, though, you seem to have the impression that my ultimate goal is more nightlife Downtown, and that's not at all my view--the ultimate goal is more residents and visitors Downtown. More amenities available outside work hours is important to me only insofar as it serves that goal.

Quote:
I'm not a fan of place making strategies, particularly as a strategy to attract young talent. The Field of Dreams approach doesn't work.
Depending on what you mean by "place making strategies", I might not disagree. Downtown doesn't need to be "made" as a place--it already IS an important place. I'd characterize my argument as more along the lines of getting the maximum value out of that place.

Heck, these days apartment projects Downtown seem to instantly develop waiting lists. I do think that indicates an undersupply of housing Downtown relative to demand, a condition which I believe is well worth addressing, but that is in some sense the exact opposite of suggesting Downtown needs a "place making strategy".
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