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Old 11-18-2011, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh area
9,912 posts, read 24,538,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallacus View Post
Not sure why people think this way, but you're definitely not alone in your thinking. I, on the other hand, couldn't disagree more. I do share your fondness for PNC Park, but I think Heinz is a great stadium, far better than 3 rivers, and the Consol Energy Center is, in my opinion, gorgeous. I'm not sure what one could do to improve the CEC, seeing a game there is fantastic, and the integration with the streets around it is superb. What is it that you dislike so much about these stadiums?
Go look around the north end of Heinz Field and tell me that's not cheaping out. Looks so cheesy. No, that doesn't affect the watching of the game, but did it have to look like an industrial warehouse? They also didn't provide for people on the south end to be able to see an instant replay screen. The overall design is pretty bland. I don't know really how it would be worse than Three Rivers, except for the getting really loud aspect. Surely a closed bowl would get louder, right? Although it gets plenty damn loud in Heinz now. But it was an opportunity to make a bigger improvement, like PNC was, and they didn't take it.
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Old 11-18-2011, 09:08 AM
 
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PNC is the worse thing that could have happened to Heinz and Consol--it is tough to compare favorably with what is arguably the best stadium in MLB, and maybe one of the top few stadiums of any kind in the United States.

Personally, I am happy to defend Consol just on the grounds that it is designed to work well in its location, particularly once the Lower Hill and Uptown are redeveloped. Sure, in isolation it is nothing special, but the whole point is it won't be in isolation, it will be part of a well-functioning neighborhood. And internally it works well as a multi-use venue, so by my standards Consol counts as a success.

Heinz I am less fond of, since I don't think it made the best use of its location, and I agree lots of the detailing is cheesy, and unavoidable to look at. That said, in general I don't mind an industrial look, and I think Stage AE actually did a nice job complementing that look. So maybe with some more infill of the North Shore development zone along those lines, Heinz will look at least a little more fitting.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:28 AM
 
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I would have gone with a horseshoe design for Heinz Field with a second screen in the north stands. Then perhaps do something interesting with steel girders around the outside of the stadium to cover the underside of the stands. The stadium looks too unimaginative and plain with no sense of architecture.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:51 PM
 
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We discussed this a bit before here, but Heinz's location was screaming out for an asymmetrical design, which could have provided a much better skyline view to a lot of the stadium, and also would have been inherently more interesting to look at.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:51 PM
 
2,269 posts, read 3,775,988 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
I would have gone with a horseshoe design for Heinz Field with a second screen in the north stands. Then perhaps do something interesting with steel girders around the outside of the stadium to cover the underside of the stands. The stadium looks too unimaginative and plain with no sense of architecture.
Heinz looks like it does because those involved didn't want to spend 500 million dollars on a facility that at best will be used 25 times a year. People were squawking, and having a conniption about the cost as it was. It was built on the cheap to be utilitarian, and it is.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Mexican War Streets
1,584 posts, read 2,084,223 times
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All the negative thoughts on Heinz had me reflecting on the comparisons people are attempting to draw. I'm not a huge fan of Heinz Field, but honestly I think it's fine and can't take the comparisons to Three Rivers too seriously.

NFL stadiums should not be compared to MLB ones, they're very different places, with different goals, desired fan experiences and economics driving their design and construction. Name a particularly architecturally attractive NFL stadium. New Cowboy? Maybe, but I've heard criticism. Honestly, I can think of 15 great MLB parks before you get to an NFL one to put on the list.

I think the reason for this is what the team and leagues are looking for the stadium to deliver to the fan and who the target fan is. The NFL is a TV game and that's the primary audience. The stadium is only going to be used 8-12 times per year so it doesn't make sense to add too many creature comforts for the average fan or spend money to enhance the game-day experience, people will go anyway just for the event. As long as you get good shots on TV, that's all that matters. I'll note that this may be changing in other markets (not Pittsburgh) as the TV experience has become so good with the NFL many fans are finding it more enjoyable than the hassle of actually going to a game and attendance, in some markets, is suffering. The newest stadiums are attempting to re-create the experience of watching the game at home, (see the new stdium in Dallas with its immense Jumbotron/ large screen tv.

The MLB side, especially for a small market team like the Pirates, is largely dependent, over 81 home games, on actual gate receipts. In many ways, for a family night at the ballpark, the game becomes secondary to all of the other parts of the larger experience. The amenities and overall pleasing nature of the stadium are much more important to the team to ensure repeat customers and increased revenues. That why the Pirates continue to outdraw their record. It's not that fans are a glutton for punishment or stupid but rather that the experience, despite the on-field struggles, is so damn pleasant.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:11 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,869,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herodotus View Post
Heinz looks like it does because those involved didn't want to spend 500 million dollars on a facility that at best will be used 25 times a year. People were squawking, and having a conniption about the cost as it was. It was built on the cheap to be utilitarian, and it is.
I wouldn't have wanted to spend another dime of public money--I would have wanted to spend less, in fact.

But what irks me is at least some other cities got a better deal at around the same time, meaning they spent less in public funds and got nicer stadiums, thanks to the team kicking in more money. Charlotte and Detroit come to mind, and I think New England also got a better deal.

I also question whether all of these issues are a matter of money--I don't think an asymmetrical stadium, for example, would necessarily have to cost a lot more money.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:17 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 32,869,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobick View Post
Name a particularly architecturally attractive NFL stadium.
I'm admittedly biased as a Detroit native and Lions fan, but Ford Field is pretty darn cool.

But I do understand your point about the different economic models.

Edit: Oh, and Lucas Oil Stadium. I've never seen it in person, but in pictures I love the look.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:28 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 10,085,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
We discussed this a bit before here, but Heinz's location was screaming out for an asymmetrical design, which could have provided a much better skyline view to a lot of the stadium, and also would have been inherently more interesting to look at.
I don't see how the location demands an asymmetric design. A horseshoe shape offers a skyline view and could better approach the crowd noise level the old Three Rivers Stadium produced.

And unlike many other stadiums, Heinz Field has a prominent location along side Pittsburgh's picturesque skyline especially when viewed from Mt Washington. That would scream for an architecturally significant exterior to enhance Pittsburgh's image.
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Old 11-18-2011, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Mexican War Streets
1,584 posts, read 2,084,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
I'm admittedly biased as a Detroit native and Lions fan, but Ford Field is pretty darn cool.

But I do understand your point about the different economic models.

Edit: Oh, and Lucas Oil Stadium. I've never seen it in person, but in pictures I love the look.
No doubt, the look could have been better.

But both those mentioned have roofs, so aesthetically the comparison is tougher. And while the roof adds considerably to the construction costs, in 2011 dollars Heinz cost $349 million, Ford cost $525 million, and Lucas Oil was a whopping $735 million.

I like Lucas Oil Stadium as well, but for 10 games a year I'm not sure I like it $400 million dollars more.
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