POLL: Should Pittsburgh Borrow $80 Million for Capital Projects? (houses, purchases)

[pman]

Originally Posted by airwave09

Fear over debt is meaningless, it's just a scam created by the banks and richest few to control the masses. Build as much meaningful infrastructure as possible because with that as well as with raw materials is where true value and prosperity lies.

that's not really true. banks benefit from debt, they don't benefit from fear over debt. debt isn't meaningless and neither are obligations. you are borrowing from future income to spend now...it's not inherently bad or good. too much can be crippling and too little could mean foregoing worthwhile projects.
I suppose the question is whether or not the projects are worth taking on debt for. how long does asphalt last? if you were to issue $80 million in debt and were king, what would you fund?
there was an article in the journal today about companies opting for more expensive led lights because they can be replaced every 4-5 years rather than a couple times per year which adds up to signficant labor savings since employees can spend that time doing other projects.

[BrianTH]

By the way, there are in fact more details available (again, whether or not they comply with Council's requirements, I have no idea):

Mayor Luke Ravenstahl*·*Press Release

[Craziaskowboi]

I think one way to discourage "urban prairies" is by adopting a two-tier property tax structure, whereby taxes on vacant and neglected property are so high that it'd make more sense from a tax standpoint for a property owner to develop it.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

I think one way to discourage "urban prairies" is by adopting a two-tier property tax structure, whereby taxes on vacant and neglected property are so high that it'd make more sense from a tax standpoint for a property owner to develop it.

What if it's a 20 x 120 lot? The City requires at least a 40 wide frontage.

[Scott2187]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

By the way, there are in fact more details available (again, whether or not they comply with Council's requirements, I have no idea):

Mayor Luke Ravenstahl*·*Press Release

If you click on "View the Budget Plan" at the top of the article, it takes you to the pdf for the plan... page 358 begins the 2012 Capital Project breakdown. However, I didn't notice the $80 million mentioned in the section. And yes, I got bored this morning so I skimmed through the entire budget plan

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Scott2187

However, I didn't notice the $80 million mentioned in the section.

I think the "bond" column shows where that money is allocated (note it is spread over two years).

[SteelCityRising]

Hmmmm. Now that I woke up to yet ANOTHER water main break I may just be in support of more borrowing if it's used to actually improve this city's infrastructural support system to at least "adequate". I can't leave the house until I can take a shower. I look and feel disgusting, and I have some important errands I NEEDED to run before going into work this afternoon. Not a happy camper right now.

[Scott2187]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Hmmmm. Now that I woke up to yet ANOTHER water main break I may just be in support of more borrowing if it's used to actually improve this city's infrastructural support system to at least "adequate". I can't leave the house until I can take a shower. I look and feel disgusting, and I have some important errands I NEEDED to run before going into work this afternoon. Not a happy camper right now.

My solution recommendation for the future:

Buy one of those camping shower bags that you fill with water, and a few gallons of water. When needed, heat 1 or 2 gallons of water on the stove, and mix in with other water into the shower bag (heat to your preference). Figure out a way to hang it in your shower stall. Use the shower!

I've actually done this, and it works fairly well. Except, I only had the supplies because I was actually going to go camping on the weekend.

[BrianTH]

Depressing article on the politics:

City's capital budget to grow

It is fine to ask if the money would be well-spent. But a lot of Council is suggesting it requires a political motive to want to borrow a substantial sum right now, and in turn they seem to be opposing the plan for their own political reasons. As I pointed out above, to explain why borrowing now makes sense, all you need to do is note municipal borrowing rates are incredibly low.

Unfortunately, we are seeing a similar dynamic play out at multiple levels of government--some folks are more concerned about harming their political opponents than doing what is best for their constituents.

[ctoocheck]

Originally Posted by airwave09

Doing things the right way and spending on quality infrastructure right now will pay off in the long term, regardless whether or not the U.S. dollar is still a viable medium of currency. Dollars are already worthless pieces of paper backed by nothing of substance like gold anymore, and their remaining value is primarily based on our past reputation as a powerhouse economy.

I'm in no way encouraging frivolous spending on crap, what I mean is investing smartly and not holding back the purse strings once you've found the right investment... which is anything that works and lasts.

That last part is the key, because in this day and age we seem to have forgotten the value of longevity. Due to ever-present inflation and increased costs across the board, anything that lasts a long time before it either loses usefulness, falls apart, or becomes outdated ends up paying the investor back exponentially for each additional year it is used. The investor in this case being the taxpayer.

This is always an interesting point.
Another example I'd be curious to know more about: wonder how much of that $14 million it might save to keep maintaining (and/or continue constructing) brick-paved streets, which clearly last much longer than asphalt. Plus they look nicer (Unless they get patched with asphalt, of course)

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Hmmmm. Now that I woke up to yet ANOTHER water main break I may just be in support of more borrowing if it's used to actually improve this city's infrastructural support system to at least "adequate". I can't leave the house until I can take a shower. I look and feel disgusting, and I have some important errands I NEEDED to run before going into work this afternoon. Not a happy camper right now.

Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel wants to drastically increase their (apparently very low) water rate to replace their failing infrastructure. I know it'd be painful but I wonder if it's a necessity that we'd be better off with here (and in other older cities) in the long run. Of course ideally, they would have a slightly higher rate over a longer time to save for/finance such projects instead of it hitting all at once...