Pittsburgh VS Cleveland (Erie, Carnegie, Rankin: environment, estate, university)

[supersoulty]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

Supersoulty, I apologize if you are offended or insulted. That was not my intention. I was just pointing out what I believe to be errors in your statements and judgements. And I suppose "higher regard" is also one of those perspective things, nor do I believe that "well-established" translates to "better". Just so you know, I'm an Erie native -- weathered many a summer, fall, winter and spring there!

Cheers.

Alright, by-gones then. To be hones, I never thought Erie had much of a Spring, but I suppose, again, that is all relative. What part of town are you orginally from?

Grow up near any of the dinors?

[Ohiogirl81]

Grow up near any of the dinors?

You bet. I went to Iroquois, so my after-school hangout was the Park Dinor in Lawrence Park (it was up for sale recently). My first job out of college was in Girard, so I had plenty of lunches at the Girard Dinor.

You're right about Erie being flat -- unless you're riding a bicycle from north to south!

[supersoulty]

Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81

You bet. I went to Iroquois, so my after-school hangout was the Park Dinor in Lawrence Park (it was up for sale recently). My first job out of college was in Girard, so I had plenty of lunches at the Girard Dinor.

You're right about Erie being flat -- unless you're riding a bicycle from north to south!

When I was Secretary General of the Gannon Uni MUN we had some meeting out at Iroquois... nice school.

I agree about riding north-south... but the Bicycle Twins seem to do well enough. ha

I lived near Papa Joe's Cafe on 8th, if you know where that is.

[Katiana]

As I explained, what you define as flat has a lot to do with where you come from. I come from a hilly area with a lot of trees. Pittsburgh is a hilly area with a lot of trees.
I guess its all about perspective. I come from the Mountains of West-central Pennsylvania, where ever town is either on a hill or in a valley. I thought Erie was flat. People who went to school in Erie who were from central Ohio always talked about how hilly Erie is.

I thought determining if someplace was flat had to do with geometry. I have lived in Pittsburgh, a hilly place by everyone's accounts; Champaign, IL which is some of the flattest land in the country; and in Colorado, the "highest" state in the country (in average elevation), plus a few other places as an adult. Flat is flat, hilly is hilly, mountainous is mountainous. There is no great debate about it. The fact that Cleveland has suburbs named Bedford Heights, Cleveland Heights, Cuyahoga Heights, Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Shaker Heights, University Heights, and Warrensville Heights should be a bit of a clue that there are hills there. The Cleveland I have seen also has lots of trees.

I was honestly unaware of the symphony, but yes, I have been to the other museums.

I know that the Natural History Museum in Pittsburgh is held in higher regard. I also know that the local theaters in Pittsburgh are some of the top rated in the world.

How do you "know" this? Is there some list? Or have you just heard people say it? Apparently you are not a follower of the arts or you would have heard of the Cleveland Symphony. I am just playing a little Devil's Advocate here.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

How do you "know" this? Is there some list? Or have you just heard people say it? Apparently you are not a follower of the arts or you would have heard of the Cleveland Symphony. I am just playing a little Devil's Advocate here.

You're walking into a landmine, pittnurse. I just did a quick google search and there are rankings supporting his/her statements.

[Katiana]

I don't think I'm walking into a land mine. I just asked. I'd like to see the rankings. Can't a person ask a question on this forum? You don't take everything everyone says here as the Gospel truth, why should I?

I am just playing a little Devil's Advocate here.

I would like to see something more than an opinion piece, too.

[Hopes]

Oh, calm down. I still love you. I'm leaving it for the origional poster to address. We'll see if he/she knows how to find the proof.

[RockLobster]

A few things I noticed in Cleveland. I went to the Browns Steelers games this past weekend. Was shocked to see what seemed like a ton of office vacancy in downtown Cleveland. Entire buildings stand vacant. Combine that with the ongoing Euclid Corridor transportation project underway, downtown is a mess near Tower City. I inquired about the Euclid project and just about everybody I talked to felt the multi billion dollar dedicated bus project was a real waste of tax payer cash. Project will link downtown with University Circle in a high speed, dedicated bus line. Cleveland, Akron Canton and Youngstown have joined forces to create 'CLEVELAND PLUS' a regional marketing effort touting culture, environment, lifestyle and economic development in Northeast Ohio.
And the Cleveland Browns still stink.

[supersoulty]

Originally Posted by pittnurse70

I thought determining if someplace was flat had to do with geometry. I have lived in Pittsburgh, a hilly place by everyone's accounts; Champaign, IL which is some of the flattest land in the country; and in Colorado, the "highest" state in the country (in average elevation), plus a few other places as an adult. Flat is flat, hilly is hilly, mountainous is mountainous. There is no great debate about it. The fact that Cleveland has suburbs named Bedford Heights, Cleveland Heights, Cuyahoga Heights, Garfield Heights, Maple Heights, Shaker Heights, University Heights, and Warrensville Heights should be a bit of a clue that there are hills there. The Cleveland I have seen also has lots of trees.

You just had to break the truce. This is so unfortunate. This is so unnessesary. I'm sorry, but defining flat vs hilly simply does have to do with where you come from, unless you can point to a clear standard. *Shrug* To someone like me Cleveland, Erie, et al are pretty flat. Sure, there are hills in a place like Erie, but I hardly notice them, why would I? Their "hill" is about a 15 degree grade over 400 feet or so. That's not a hill to me. A hill rises at about 35 degress (more or less) an the rise is far from gradual. There are hieghts around Erie, too. If you go out to Millcreek Twn on Peach St. and look down from the Wegman's parking lot, it becomes rather obvious that you are a lot higher up than downtown. But, I just don't notice it because you have to travel so far before there is a noticable change in elevation. In the same way I honestly didn't notice the hills when I was in Cleveland. To me, that means its not hilly. It certainly isn't like the places I am used to.

Looking at a topographical map right now, it looks like Clevelands "Hieghts" are similar to those around Erie... which is to say, not hills at all to someone like me.

Compared that to Pittsburgh where you can't walk three blocks without a noticable change in elevation.

How do you "know" this? Is there some list? Or have you just heard people say it? Apparently you are not a follower of the arts or you would have heard of the Cleveland Symphony. I am just playing a little Devil's Advocate here.

I used to study paleotology... yes... I know it seems pretty unlikely for someone to study poli sci, urban planning, geography, the origins of life on earth, etc, but I have. I also know quite a bit about linguistics, history of all kinds and dabble in philosophy, theology and theoretical physics if those ever come up. Oddly, I also have a life. Anyway, Most of the books I went through often mentioned the Carnegie Museum... placing it with the best in the world (these where relatively recently written, BTW)... only criticizing it for still not placing its dinosaurs in anatomically correct possitions (the skeletons in the museum still drag their tails, we now know this to be incorrect). But the museum's retort is that their dinosaur room doesnt have the space to make the changes and they woudl have to eliminate some of the skeletons... they would rather emphasize quantity.

As for the music... to be honest, when I listen to it, unless I am in the hall, I know who wrote it the first time around, I don't pay attention to who is performing it.

[guylocke]

Most of the books I went through often mentioned the Carnegie Museum... placing it with the best in the world (these where relatively recently written, BTW)... only criticizing it for still not placing its dinosaurs in anatomically correct possitions (the skeletons in the museum still drag their tails, we now know this to be incorrect). But the museum's retort is that their dinosaur room doesnt have the space to make the changes and they woudl have to eliminate some of the skeletons... they would rather emphasize quantity.

The Dino Exhibit at the museum is being completely renovated atm, so hopefully the anatomy will be corrected.

I believe, if I'm not mistaken, it is the worlds third largest museum collection of dinosaurs. Andrew Carnegie had a paricular love for them and invested a lot of money in it.