02-12-2012, 10:56 PM
Location: Pittsburgh
1,758 posts, read
4,230,102 times
Reputation: 552
Looking at an aerial view of the Hill District, one can really see that this area is poised to boom in the next decade or so and is not getting as much attention as it should. Sure, we have talked about UpTown and all the potential there with the Fifth and Forbes corridor and the Oakland Portal gradually having downtown meet Oakland. Well, I think people better start looking at the Centre, Webster, and Bedford corridors. Properties in this area have seen among the highest increase in the property assesment. This is due to location rather than the condition of the property that the land sits on. I was impressed at the lower part of Centre Avenue when I drove through the other day. I only expect the part closer to Oakland to improve also as the demand for more housing and office development closer to Oakland is sky high. The area that connects the Pitt campus at the bottom of Robinson Street extension and Herron Avenue would be another place for revitalization given the vacant lots and properties in such proximity to campus. I hate to see people displaced, but if the demand for a higher use is caused by economical forces both locally and nationally. Can The Hill become a vibrant neighborhood again? I say yes due to location, demand, manageable size, and vibrancy of adjacent neighborhoods bursting at seams (location).
02-13-2012, 06:34 AM
20,273 posts, read
33,012,123 times
Reputation: 2911
There has been a lot more investment in redeveloping the Hill lately than some people seem to realize.
02-13-2012, 07:21 AM
Location: Lawrenceville, Pittsburgh
2,109 posts, read
2,159,200 times
Reputation: 1845
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BrianTH
There has been a lot more investment in redeveloping the Hill lately than some people seem to realize.
I seem to remember others saying that it was maybe a 20-30 year horizon vs. the OP's 10 year prediction. Do you have thoughts on that?
02-13-2012, 07:29 AM
Location: Western PA
3,733 posts, read
5,964,681 times
Reputation: 3189
I drive Centre Avenue between downtown and Oakland regularly (it's the quickest way between the two) and development up Centre Ave. from downtown is looking pretty good. The new library anchors the corner of Centre and Kirkpatrick, and it's just a short distance from there to Schenley HS. A new YMCA is being built, and the new grocery store is chugging along. The Crawford-Roberts residential development has really made a difference and brought a lot of middle-income people into the lower hill. I hope the future brings additional housing for all incomes to fill in the gaps in the neighborhood.
02-13-2012, 07:45 AM
20,273 posts, read
33,012,123 times
Reputation: 2911
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhoIsStanwix?
I seem to remember others saying that it was maybe a 20-30 year horizon vs. the OP's 10 year prediction. Do you have thoughts on that?
I think you would have to break down the predicted timeline by specific area. Some parts are already well-established, some are changing rapidly, and some haven't really changed too much--yet.
The pace may also depend in part on how other nearby areas develop--I think the faster the Civic Arena site and Uptown are redeveloped, the faster the rest of the Hill will be redeveloped as well.
Overall, though, I'd guess in 10 years many more people will be talking about a revitalized Hill, thinking about locating there, and so on. In that sense I think the OP is right that the Hill will be "booming" in a collective sense over that period--in fact I think that process is already well under way. It is just going to take a while for that process to be entirely complete.
02-13-2012, 02:05 PM
Location: Pittsburgh Metro
80 posts, read
111,187 times
Reputation: 42
Unfortunately though I'm sure speculators are holding on to property in the Hill for dear life, just waiting to make tons of money. They know exactly that one day it will be "blooming" with activity again (by their definition: white people spending money). My wish is for more community-based development in the Hill district so that everyone benefits instead of what classically happens in Pgh -- rich land owners makes tons of money while residents are effectively booted out because of property values, etc. Look at East Liberty, Lawrenceville, etc. Developers basically said "**** you" to the Hill District when they developed Civic Arena, and I really, really hope it doesn't happen again.
02-13-2012, 03:04 PM
1,901 posts, read
4,378,860 times
Reputation: 1018
Crawford Square and most of Crawford Roberts is pretty much there. Upper Hill is there. Oak Hill give it a couple more years and it'll become very simillar to Crawford Square... If the police would just round up all of the pimps druggies & dope dealers, then Uptown would be there. Yet at least to me it will be a long long time before the rest of the Hill gets fixed up. Note once they finish with Elmore Square & Bently Drive (Addison Terrace) and Reed Roberts Manor the city has destroyed a toatal of six Housing Projects, and yet we're still having this conversasion!
02-13-2012, 03:26 PM
Location: Pittsburgh
26,137 posts, read
25,969,691 times
Reputation: 17378
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WhoIsStanwix?
I seem to remember others saying that it was maybe a 20-30 year horizon vs. the OP's 10 year prediction. Do you have thoughts on that?
Being someone that ACTUALLY knows real estate, I would say the Hill is a very long way off. It is really large and that is not a positive. Even parts close to Oakland are NOT very good and Oakland is in demand with tons of students. The part next to the Civic Arena sight is doing okay, but go up a couple of blocks and it isn't good. Then there is the size of that bad area from Oakland ALL the way to Downtown.
It is so big to try and put a dent in. There are so may ultra low income places that it will be a very long time. I would invest in Larimer before the Hill. I think that will go at some point. Parts of East Liberty around Stanton is going to get better. The Hill? I might be long gone before that place gets going. Some people will come on here and say all is GREAT all the time, but as a real INVESTOR, I ignore it. People like Brian shouldn't give advice on real estate. If you want sunshine blown up your you know what, it reads well, but if you are an investor, it is best not be be sold on silliness.
02-13-2012, 04:20 PM
Location: Pittsburgh
1,758 posts, read
4,230,102 times
Reputation: 552
Mapping America ? Census Bureau 2005-9 American Community Survey - NYTimes.com
What that map tells me is that even though the heart of The Hill's median income has declined, adjacent neighborhoods like Downtown and Central Oakland have increased dramatically. This is a result of people wanting to live closer to the two major CBD's and/or where they work. The Hill fills both criteria. I do agree that places like Shadyside, Oakland and Downtown themselves will see more activity. However, if property taxes are so high based on location, change is inevitable in the next decade or so. I agree that further up Centre Avenue is not so attractive. However, this is where you get closer to Pitt's campus and the East End. I do agree that the Hill is big, and that is a deterent. But it is not too big. Much of the Hill feeds into Herron Hill, which feeds into Polish Hill and the upstart Lawrenceville. Uptown is part of the Hill and will surely see some development in the next few years along with the former Mellon Arena site. The area is not small, but I think revitization is doable due to Pittsburgh being blessed with the topogaphy it has. There is no thirty square mile squalid area like we might see in flat larger cities.
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Median household income ($)
Median household income (% change since 2000)
Household income diversity
Ratio of average income to average house value (%)
Ratio of average income to average rent
Median household income ($) - White
Median household income ($) - Black or African American
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Median household income ($) - Hispanic or Latino
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Median household income ($) - Multirace
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Median household income for houses/condos with a mortgage ($)
Median household income for apartments without a mortgage ($)
Races - White alone (%)
Races - White alone (% change since 2000)
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Population density (people per square mile)
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Coronavirus confirmed cases (Apr 23, 2024)
Deaths caused by coronavirus (Apr 23, 2024)
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Deaths caused by coronavirus (per 100k population) (Apr 23, 2024)
Daily increase in number of cases (Apr 23, 2024)
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Hospitalized patients (Apr 18, 2022)
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COVID Vaccine doses distributed (per 100k population) (Sep 19, 2023)
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Cost of living index
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Commute - mean travel time to work (minutes)
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Travel time to work - 60 to 89 minutes (%)
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Occupied housing units (%)
Vacant housing units (%)
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Residents with income below the poverty level (%)
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Poverty status for native-born residents (%)
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Air pollution - Air Quality Index (AQI)
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Crime - City-data.com crime index
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Crime - Assaults per 100,000 population (5 year average)
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Crime - Thefts per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Auto thefts per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Arson per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - City-data.com crime index (5 year average)
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1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Republican Party (Dole)
1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
2000 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Gore)
2000 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Republican Party (Bush)
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2004 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Kerry)
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2012 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
2016 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
2016 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Republican Party (Trump)
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2020 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Biden)
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Ancestries Reported - Arab (%)
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Educational Attainment - No schooling completed (%)
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Urban houses (%)
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Mortgage status - with mortgage (%)
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Working at home (%)
Industry diversity
Most Common Industries - Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting, and mining (%)
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Occupation diversity
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People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
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People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
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People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
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People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
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Residents speaking English at home (%)
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Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)
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It is so big to try and put a dent in. There are so may ultra low income places that it will be a very long time. I would invest in Larimer before the Hill. I think that will go at some point. Parts of East Liberty around Stanton is going to get better. The Hill? I might be long gone before that place gets going. Some people will come on here and say all is GREAT all the time, but as a real INVESTOR, I ignore it. People like Brian shouldn't give advice on real estate. If you want sunshine blown up your you know what, it reads well, but if you are an investor, it is best not be be sold on silliness.
