What Is A West PA Democrat Like? (California, Denver: sales, sales tax)

[UKyank]

All the Pittsburgh democrats I know will vote straight party line regardless who the candidate is and would rather take a cyanide pill then ever vote for an R or an I. It's a bit disheartening living somewhere knowing there is 0 political competition among the parties and you get to look foward to things such as another 50 yrs of Ravenstahl or however long he wishes to be mayor. It would be equally disheartening if the Republican party had a stranglehold on the region as a lack of political competition leads to lacadasical governance. (and yes some inner party democratic primary battles can be heated here but the difference between the candidate is nearly nil there)

[squarian]

Originally Posted by jimmyev

state stores, closed primaries, no early voting, and no referendums at even the local level, I'd say Pennsylvanians only care about preserving the status quo

If you are willing to accept a friendly amendment, altering "Pennsylvanians" to read "the structure of politics in Pennsylvania", I'd wholeheartedly agree with you.

Since partisan organization is still recognizably machine-driven, and since the machines managed to fend off Progressive-era reform for initiative, referenda & recall, merit appointment of the judiciary and non-political legislative reapportionment, PA politics is essentially still operating on the patronage-spoils indirect-democracy model of the 1870s-1910s, America's banana-republic era.

Which is rather remarkable when compared to other forms of government from that same era. It seems preposterous to imagine Germany still governed by Kaiser and Kanzler, or Russia by the Tsar, or the map of Africa painted in the colors of the European colonial empires - and yet, despite some minor changes in 1968, Pennsylvania's political system is still firmly lodged in the era of frock coats, ward bosses, railroad scandals and naked political corruption.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by jimmyev

This isn't unique to Democrats in Western PA. With Republican support of something as socialistic as state stores, plus closed primaries, no early voting, and no referendums at even the local level, I'd say Pennsylvanians only care about preserving the status quo, from the West to the East.

No early voting? That's amazing! Colorado is pretty libertarian, and we have early voting for about a month before the elections.

Re: the referendums, my dad was a local pol in PA (councilman). I say this to show he knew a little about politics. Anyway, he was most impressed that we here in CO have these referenda. He also liked that we get to vote on all our taxes. Yeah, PA needs to move into the 21st century.

Originally Posted by villageidiot1

This is correct. Here are the maps from the 1980 and 1984 elections.

1980 Presidential General Election Data - Pennsylvania

by County



1984 Presidential General Election Data - Pennsylvania

by County

I knew they hated Reagan in Beaver County!

[Caladium]

Why do Pennsylvanian democrats oppose early voting? That's the best way to get more people voting, plus it relieve stress on volunteers on election day.

[squarian]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Re: the referendums, my dad was a local pol in PA (councilman). I say this to show he knew a little about politics. Anyway, he was most impressed that we here in CO have these referenda. He also liked that we get to vote on all our taxes. Yeah, PA needs to move into the 21st century.

But-but-but - California is UNGOVERNABLE, so that proves we need a huge permanent legislature of party hacks and apparatchiks to do our deciding for us, don't you know?

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by squarian

But-but-but - California is UNGOVERNABLE, so that proves we need a huge permanent legislature of party hacks and apparatchiks to do our deciding for us, don't you know?

Huh? I'm talking about Colorado, not California.

[escilade18]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Huh? I'm talking about Colorado, not California.

they have referendums in Cali also, and I wish that they had them in PA. oh well, we could be in worse shape (look no farther than WV)

[squarian]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Huh? I'm talking about Colorado, not California.

Yeah I know - but CA is always brought up by opponents of IRR as proof that such a system makes a state ungovernable. Conveniently ignoring all the other states, like CO, where IRR works just fine, thanks very much.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by escilade18

they have referendums in Cali also, and I wish that they had them in PA. oh well, we could be in worse shape (look no farther than WV)

Be happy we don't. Citizen referendums are horrific for minority rights.

[MeinGlanzendMotorrad]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

Be happy we don't. Citizen referendums are horrific for rights.

Fixed that