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Old 04-05-2012, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Philly
8,718 posts, read 7,190,300 times
Reputation: 2019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
Except that Pike County and Carbon County both lost population between 2010 and 2011, and growth in Monroe County slowed dramatically during that time as well.
that seems to be holding the state numbers down a bit, and somewhat unexpected. south central pa (lancaster, dauphin, york, cumberland) made up a robust 23% of growth (perhaps that area isn't all DC sprawl after all). perhaps the most interesting is the addition of allegheny to that list and the strength of the philadelphia growth.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
3,809 posts, read 3,306,942 times
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Hmm an hour would be doable I suppose, but it would be expensive and long from my perspective because I'm only 5 miles from my workplace and it only takes me 15 minutes to get there.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
3,809 posts, read 3,306,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Nice graph from Chris Briem:



From one perspective this is just the normalization of Pittsburgh. But "normal" is going to change everything, given how long we were abnormal.
In a way, it is somewhat abnormal becuase all of the other "northern cities" (Midwest and Northeast) still had negative domestic migration besides Columbus. But wow at Las Vegas now losing that many domestic migrants after growing for so long.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:16 PM
 
3,940 posts, read 2,962,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradjl2009 View Post
Hmm an hour would be doable I suppose, but it would be expensive and long from my perspective because I'm only 5 miles from my workplace and it only takes me 15 minutes to get there.
In reality it would be much longer than an hour. You have to account for commuting to and from the different stations.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:37 PM
 
4,633 posts, read 4,495,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradjl2009 View Post
Hmm an hour would be doable I suppose, but it would be expensive and long from my perspective because I'm only 5 miles from my workplace and it only takes me 15 minutes to get there.
Expensive is trying to live in NYC....

Understand that in the NYC Metro if you're last name isn't Rockafeller or Trump....its either 1 of 2 poisons, live within the city and pay astronomical rents for something halfway decent....Or you deal with the commute to save more $$$$$

Which is more important to you, your time or money... That definitely applies NYC workers.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
3,809 posts, read 3,306,942 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
Expensive is trying to live in NYC....

Understand that in the NYC Metro if you're last name isn't Rockafeller or Trump....its either 1 of 2 poisons, live within the city and pay astronomical rents for something halfway decent....Or you deal with the commute to save more $$$$$

Which is more important to you, your time or money... That definitely applies NYC workers.
That's why I would never live there, and from what the data and you have said, most average people in NY and NJ seem to be jumping ship and leaving.
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Old 04-05-2012, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Philly
8,718 posts, read 7,190,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
Expensive is trying to live in NYC....

Understand that in the NYC Metro if you're last name isn't Rockafeller or Trump....its either 1 of 2 poisons, live within the city and pay astronomical rents for something halfway decent....Or you deal with the commute to save more $$$$$

Which is more important to you, your time or money... That definitely applies NYC workers.
I think you're making some gross assumptions without much data. the acela is generally not used for commuting purposes but more business meetings (such as trying to raise capital for your firm). a pittsburgh based firm would fly, in Philadelphia you take the train. the reality is that the cost of living in Philadelphia today plus $1200/mo to amtrak for what is generally 80-88 minutes of train riding (plus time on either end) just isn't that popular. you can live in ny or the general area for that price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradjl2009 View Post
That's why I would never live there, and from what the data and you have said, most average people in NY and NJ seem to be jumping ship and leaving.
NJ has a big problem, which is why a guy like Christie got elected (love him or hate him, ten years ago he would not have had a shot in hell). south jersey has no jobs and high taxes. most people work in PA, pay a bridge toll, and have been rewarded with inferior transit and taxes that run about double their PA suburban counterparts. gloucester county was once a high flying sprawl county, it's come back down to earth. (of course, I also think PA is more attractive...geographically, Philadelphia is where the piedmont meets the coastal plain, everything to the east of Philadelphia is coastal plan, everything to the north and west is hilly terrain. the city itself is where it changes, right downtown, south philly was wetlands, north philadelphia is uphill. all that being said, if you're gonna work in ny, it still pays to live in nj rather than Philadelphia, the amtrak ticket eats up any property tax savings you might have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradjl2009 View Post
In a way, it is somewhat abnormal becuase all of the other "northern cities" (Midwest and Northeast) still had negative domestic migration besides Columbus. But wow at Las Vegas now losing that many domestic migrants after growing for so long.
I've said this to brian in the past but I think the city's small size will now work to its advantage. I believe that if you shrunk Philadelphia's borders it might show positive migration but since it's much larger, it includes "inner ring" suburbs that, in the past buttressed population loss, but today, are the main sources of domestic outmigration and immigration.

Last edited by pman; 04-05-2012 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 04-05-2012, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
3,809 posts, read 3,306,942 times
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Quote:
NJ has a big problem, which is why a guy like Christie got elected (love him or hate him, ten years ago he would not have had a shot in hell). south jersey has no jobs and high taxes. most people work in PA, pay a bridge toll, and have been rewarded with inferior transit and taxes that run about double their PA suburban counterparts. gloucester county was once a high flying sprawl county, it's come back down to earth. (of course, I also think PA is more attractive...geographically, Philadelphia is where the piedmont meets the coastal plain, everything to the east of Philadelphia is coastal plan, everything to the north and west is hilly terrain. the city itself is where it changes, right downtown, south philly was wetlands, north philadelphia is uphill. all that being said, if you're gonna work in ny, it still pays to live in nj rather than Philadelphia, the amtrak ticket eats up any property tax savings you might have.
I actually like Christie for the most part and would give him serious consideration as a vote if he ran for President some day. I may not agree with everything he's said and done but he is trying to keep spending down in a state that spends a lot and is losing development and business becuase of those high taxes. Jersey does have a lot of environmental issues for a small state IMO and the taxes and COL is so high I'd be questioning why am I here when PA is close and much cheaper. Plus, thankfully we don't have to endure any PA versions of Jersey Shore, Jerseylicious, or the Real House Wives of NJ.


Quote:
I've said this to brian in the past but I think the city's small size will now work to its advantage. I believe that if you shrunk Philadelphia's borders it might show positive migration but since it's much larger, it includes "inner ring" suburbs that, in the past buttressed population loss, but today, are the main sources of domestic outmigration and immigration.
I have heard that and noticed from the Census that Center City and South Philly's population boomed over the last 10 years, but many of the other places were still in decline with population. Pittsburgh is small enough and I think its "stay away from" areas don't take up a large enough part of the city to be concerned that people wouldn't move back into the city.
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Old 04-05-2012, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Athens, GA (via Pittsburgh, PA)
9,561 posts, read 8,084,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
NJ has a big problem, which is why a guy like Christie got elected (love him or hate him, ten years ago he would not have had a shot in hell). south jersey has no jobs and high taxes. most people work in PA, pay a bridge toll, and have been rewarded with inferior transit and taxes that run about double their PA suburban counterparts. gloucester county was once a high flying sprawl county, it's come back down to earth.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the sense that the New Jersey suburbs have been handicapping the Philadelphia MSA economically and demographically. It seems to me like the city of Philadelphia and the Pennsylvania suburbs are developed similarly to the Boston MSA, with a large central city ringed by several traditional satellite towns with dense central business districts, while the New Jersey suburbs have developed more like the Detroit MSA, with Camden being "Detroit," the post-industrial central city that everybody's abandoning in favor of the nearby suburban sprawl.
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Old 04-05-2012, 05:45 PM
Status: "Preparing for a life in exile." (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: M.D. Pa.
6,100 posts, read 3,985,187 times
Reputation: 3191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the sense that the New Jersey suburbs have been handicapping the Philadelphia MSA economically and demographically. It seems to me like the city of Philadelphia and the Pennsylvania suburbs are developed similarly to the Boston MSA, with a large central city ringed by several traditional satellite towns with dense central business districts, while the New Jersey suburbs have developed more like the Detroit MSA, with Camden being "Detroit," the post-industrial central city that everybody's abandoning in favor of the nearby suburban sprawl.
Camden is one city. There are a number of middle to upper enclaves in South Jersey. There may be a lot of ugly sprawl, but there are as many corporate centers as there are strip malls and big box stores, making it sustainable, however much of an eyesore. While Camden County has been more or less stagnant in terms of population growth in recent years, neighboring Gloucester and Burlington Counties have been booming in population. The Detroit comparison doesn't work because Camden, being an edge city, had Philadelphia to fall back on.
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