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Old 04-11-2012, 06:02 PM
 
90 posts, read 46,596 times
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It would make a ton more sense to connect NY to Pitt to Chicago, but such is life. I don't think their is enough here to be the end of the line for a network unless they planed to expand at some later date or the cost was such that it was cheaper to take the train for most people.

As for flying, it's such a pain anymore, and honestly, you'd spend about or slightly under 3 hours getting to your destination anyways sitting though lines and delays. So it's a toss up in the end.
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh PA
1,128 posts, read 1,039,203 times
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I would support such a plan going into effect. If the western infrastructure in already in place, it will be an easier sale in gov't to connect Pittsburgh to Harrisburg and DC via high speed rail to have a more complete network. And about flying, although the flight itself is short, security, bag checking and delays can make the flying time not much less than if you actually drove to Chicago. Also, I admittedly don't know much about trains but I imagine that they would be more fuel efficient than airplanes (if anyone has any data to backup or overturn this claim please post because i am truly interested)
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:56 PM
 
4,095 posts, read 3,258,218 times
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Trains also have the advantage of (usually) dropping you off at a station in the heart of downtown, rather than an airport outside of the city. 3 hours is certainly competitive with a flight to Chicago, when all is said and done, it's probably faster.

I think the main factor is whether or not it's cheaper, though.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
4,734 posts, read 3,118,871 times
Reputation: 1810
Quote:
Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday View Post
Trains also have the advantage of (usually) dropping you off at a station in the heart of downtown, rather than an airport outside of the city.
Of course, that is only an advantage if your final destination is downtown or another inner city location.

Otherwise, its probably a wash as far as time, or perhaps even worse.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Leesburg
799 posts, read 708,103 times
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HSR or not, Pittsburgh is the hub between the Midwest and the Northeast urban corridor. Chicago is isolated and I can understand the thinking behind better connectivity in the Midwest. I think Chicago's best days are in the past. For Pittsburgh, Toronto makes much more sense than Chicago.

Chi-Pitts never made much sense to me.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:28 PM
 
89 posts, read 76,345 times
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I'm from downtown chicago and live in Pittsburgh. I would take this train all the time! I love trains. They are great for a famliy because you can walk around, not go through security, and not have to waste your time going to and from the airport. Also, there are generally less delays. I hope this happens!
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:38 PM
 
6,907 posts, read 4,370,323 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by globalburgh View Post
HSR or not, Pittsburgh is the hub between the Midwest and the Northeast urban corridor. Chicago is isolated and I can understand the thinking behind better connectivity in the Midwest. I think Chicago's best days are in the past. For Pittsburgh, Toronto makes much more sense than Chicago.

Chi-Pitts never made much sense to me.
I don't know if Pittsburgh is much of a hub. It would be a connecting point along an East-West route and I suspect the east connections would be Philadelphia and Washington. That's what it is for AMTRAK now. West? Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland but maybe it would be just Cleveland. If Canada were in on this it would be Toronto -> Buffalo -> Cleveland. Plus there is a desire for a Cleveland <-> Columbus <-> Cincinnati route.

So Pittsburgh might only connect to Cleveland in the west and Philadelphia and DC in the east.

But again, I don't see this stuff happening.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:40 PM
 
4,721 posts, read 4,822,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evergrey View Post
Well, of course. But the Chicago plan doesn't include routes to DC and NYC. I fully support Pittsburgh as the HSR nexus between the East Coast and Midwest... but it would make little sense if Pittsburgh is to be an "eastern terminus" in a Midwestern network. Too often, "megaregional planners" make the mistake of lumping Pittsburgh into ChiPitts or Cleveburgh or Great Lakes due to the presence of Youngstown of all places... and a shared history of industrial decay. But Pittsburgh is really an East Coast outpost... there's no Youngstown to the east to string along a loose corridor of sprawl due to the rugged mountainous terrain... but our greatest population, cultural and economic interchanges are with NYC/Philly/DC.

What Pittsburgh needs first... is HSR across the mountains to Harrisburg... which will plug into the existing infrastructure between HBG and Philly and the rest of the East Coast. A PGH-DC line would also be fantastic for the the region... and would be the critical link for future DC-Midwest connectivity.

I'd love to have fast trains heading west... but Pittsburgh needs to make sure it's plugged into an eastern system first... or else HSR will be doomed in Pittsburgh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by globalburgh View Post
HSR or not, Pittsburgh is the hub between the Midwest and the Northeast urban corridor. Chicago is isolated and I can understand the thinking behind better connectivity in the Midwest. I think Chicago's best days are in the past. For Pittsburgh, Toronto makes much more sense than Chicago.

Chi-Pitts never made much sense to me.
nough said! - Pittsburgh needs connected to the East first, then there can be talk of making Pittsburgh the Junction between Chicago and NYC which the Burgh is the logical nexus for.

I don't know who was the fool tried come up with a Chi-Pitts megaopolis except for its closeness to Cleveland and some inward migration from Chicago, Pittsburgh has virtually no relationship with the Midwest.

Pittsburgh is more like a solid Left Arm of the BosWas megaopolis.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:40 PM
 
2,198 posts, read 1,667,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by globalburgh View Post
HSR or not, Pittsburgh is the hub between the Midwest and the Northeast urban corridor. Chicago is isolated and I can understand the thinking behind better connectivity in the Midwest. I think Chicago's best days are in the past. For Pittsburgh, Toronto makes much more sense than Chicago.

Chi-Pitts never made much sense to me.
Well, Chi-Pitts... if you look really hard at a map... you can kinda string along some semi-densely populated corridor via Youngstown, Sandusky and South Bend from PGH to CHI... that's how it was "formed"... and it is ridiculous. We may be separated by a couple hours of "black forest" in Central PA... but PGH's megaregion is the Northeast.

...

I don't think we can authoritatively claim that "Chicago's best days are in the past"... look at Pittsburgh a few decades ago, for example. However... I agree with the point you're making. Chicago has been performing very poorly lately in terms of economic and demographic metrics... and probably has a lot of negative inertia heading into the near future. Most of its Midwestern "satellites" also are behind the curve (St. Louis, Milwaukee, Detroit, etc.). If you're in a transition region, Chicago is not the "regional capital" you want to attach yourself to. I would suggest that Cleveland and environs would also be wise to prioritize connectivity with the NYC-DC corridor (and Pittsburgh, of course!).

I am intrigued by your idea of a Toronto-Pittsburgh relationship. No doubt if not for the international border... which has been increasingly fortified over the past decade to both our nations' detriment... this would be a logical relationship. At present, Pittsburgh is a popular shopping destination for Toronto... while Toronto is a popular cultural and entertainment destination for Pittsburghers. I think Toronto is probably ignored somewhat by Pittsburgh regional leadership... but relations with such a dynamic international region could yield serious benefits. Pittsburgh is one of the closest major U.S. regions to Toronto... a major gateway for Canadians heading south... and at present... an economically vibrant metro.
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Old 04-11-2012, 07:55 PM
 
2,198 posts, read 1,667,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post

So Pittsburgh might only connect to Cleveland in the west and Philadelphia and DC in the east.
And that's all it would take to make Pittsburgh the "hub" between Northeast and Midwest HSR networks. The two most important lines (NYC via Philly... and DC) would be converging at Pittsburgh... heading west to the capital of the Midwest via Cleveland.

The only other possible route coming out of the Northeast would be a much-less-important Great Lakes route entering Cleveland from Erie/Buffalo/Rochester/Albany/etc. This could end up a reality due to the power of in-state politics vs. routes that require cooperation and vision of multiple states. While not as important to the 50 states... it would be seen as important to NY State to connect their far-flung Upstate towns to NYC. It could also possibly connect to Boston, Montreal and Toronto to increase its utility. I'm not against such a route... but it's a clear 3rd place after NYC and DC via PGH.

Of much lesser importance... if HSR does ever come to fruition... and politicians don't drop the ball on Pittsburgh's natural location as a regional hub... lines could be extended west to Columbus/Cincinnati/St. Louis (Columbus could even diverge to Cincinnati/Louisville and Dayton/Indianapolis) and north to Erie/Buffalo/Toronto... and who knows... maybe even a spur south to Morgantown.

...

As for Ohio's scrapped Cincy/Col/Cleve route... their plans actually included a second round of routes that would connect both Cleveland and Columbus to Pittsburgh.
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