Why Pittsburgh's schools aren't that bad... (Philadelphia, Reading: transfer, magnet schools, property taxes)

[HeavenWood]

Originally Posted by caroline2

Yep. More generally, while I think it's interesting data that eschaton pulled together and appreciate the effort, I guess it's a question of who you're trying to market city schools to. For many parents, "ranking proficient on the PSSA" isn't much more impressive than "can fog up a mirror".

This is true provided the school in question has a sufficient level of resources. Obviously Allderdice and CAPA do.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by caroline2

Yep. More generally, while I think it's interesting data that eschaton pulled together and appreciate the effort, I guess it's a question of who you're trying to market city schools to. For many parents, "ranking proficient on the PSSA" isn't much more impressive than "can fog up a mirror".

Well, here's the same ranking for only Advanced:

White:

1. Obama - IBU (68%)
2. Upper Saint Clair (67%)
3. North Allegheny (66%)
4. Mount Lebanon (63%)
5. CAPA (63%)
6. Hampton (63%)
7. Allderdice (61%)
8. Fox Chapel (58%)
9. Quaker Valley (58%)
10. Avonworth (52%)

Black

1. Northgate (67%)
2. CAPA (66%)
3. Quaker Valley (61%)
4. Chartiers Valley (48%)
5. Obama IBU (47%)
6. City Charter (39%)
7. Allderice (37%)
8. Gateway (31%)
9. Plum (27%)
10. Baldwin (24%)

Essentially unchanged in both cases.

More generally, I understand why college placement matters. However, if despite having identical education outcomes to the top districts, the three good Pittsburgh public high schools lag in terms of elite college placement, that's really a question of marketing and changing public perceptions, not education.

[Hopes]

It's interesting that Allderdice isn't all that impressive considering how everyone raves about it all the time.

[HeavenWood]

Originally Posted by eschaton

More generally, I understand why college placement matters. However, if despite having identical education outcomes to the top districts, the three good Pittsburgh public high schools lag in terms of elite college placement, that's really a question of marketing and changing public perceptions, not education.

It's also a question of what these students' families can afford. Top schools tend to have generous financial aid, but even that isn't always enough.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Hopes

It's interesting that Allderdice isn't all that impressive considering how everyone raves about it all the time.

Apparently Allderdice ranks as one of the top 10 public HS in the County, for both white and black students, by these measures.

I'm not sure what you have in mind, but I believe it is is consistent with what I have said in the past about Allderdice. It is the best feeder HS in the City, and one of the better HS in the area (not necessarily the very best, but quite good).

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Hopes

It's interesting that Allderdice isn't all that impressive considering how everyone raves about it all the time.

It's not that surprising. Although Allderdice has a magnet component, it's mainly a neighborhood school. And even though it's thought of as the Squirrel Hill/Point Breeze high school, some more modest neighborhoods feed into it, like Greenfield, Lincoln Place, Hays, and New Homestead. So a small contingent of parents who come from a non-intellectual background who just send their kid there because that happens to be the local school is to be expected.

I would assume the same is why Fox Chapel, despite being richer than Mount Lebanon and the like, scores a bit lower. A lot of people have been moving to the other municipalities for a good deal for a great district, but there's plenty of locals with kids left as well. Since we know school doesn't matter if the family, for one reason or another, isn't on board, you'd expect a subset to lag a bit.

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

It's also a question of what these students' families can afford. Top schools tend to have generous financial aid, but even that isn't always enough.

Good point. This would essentially solve itself given enough time and changing perceptions however, as the draw of all three schools would raise, meaning more upper-middle class and wealthy parents would find ways to get their kids to attend.

I've been mulling if there's some way that Pittsburgh could let more out-of-city kids into the magnet system, while still maintaining the existing slots for Pittsburgh kids. If there was a bit more draw, I bet you could begin opening up a few more magnets which would still have an overwhelmingly majority Pittsburgh draw, and allow more diversity in specializations. In addition, once their kids were in the Pittsburgh magnet system, at least some parents might decide to move into the city, or to push for their borough to have a closer relationship with the city itself. I could see this being a win-win especially for areas like the Mon Valley and Woodland Hills, which don't really offer excellent educational choices for their students.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I've been mulling if there's some way that Pittsburgh could let more out-of-city kids into the magnet system, while still maintaining the existing slots for Pittsburgh kids. If there was a bit more draw, I bet you could begin opening up a few more magnets which would still have an overwhelmingly majority Pittsburgh draw, and allow more diversity in specializations. In addition, once their kids were in the Pittsburgh magnet system, at least some parents might decide to move into the city, or to push for their borough to have a closer relationship with the city itself. I could see this being a win-win especially for areas like the Mon Valley and Woodland Hills, which don't really offer excellent educational choices for their students.

Suburban students can attend the Pittsburgh magnet schools. The parents have to pay tuition, but it's much more affordable than paying for most private high schools. I have a suburban friend who sent his daughter to CAPA this way.

[Hopes]

Here's an old article about it: Tuition break sought for suburban students at city arts school

1/3 of the students can be non-residents.

[h_curtis]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Suburban students can attend the Pittsburgh magnet schools. The parents have to pay tuition, but it's much more affordable than paying for most private high schools. I have a suburban friend who sent his daughter to CAPA this way.

CAPA is probably the only school that might have interest to anyone in a suburb.

[caroline2]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I would assume the same is why Fox Chapel, despite being richer than Mount Lebanon and the like, scores a bit lower.

Fox Chapel is, but the Fox Chapel Area School district is not richer than MTL, USC, NA, etc districts. FCASD includes Fox Chapel, O'Hara, Blawnox, Sharpsburg, Aspinwall, and Indiana Township.