Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Pittsburgh
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-18-2012, 01:44 PM
 
Location: 15206
1,860 posts, read 2,579,198 times
Reputation: 1301

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
I always find it funny when people suggest that urban-renewal projects caused the decline of inner city neighborhoods.

East Liberty was going to decline no matter what city planner did, or didn't do.
Yes, but what they did likely made it worse.

There's no doubt that the hill district urban renewal was horrible for the city and the residents.

East Liberty's could have been handled better. At the same time, there was a housing boom in the burbs and people wanted to move out of the city and could afford a house if they did.

Plus, the population was at its peak and declined in the city and county from that point forward, not because of urban renewal, but because of the steel industry leaving town.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-18-2012, 01:44 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
26,137 posts, read 25,973,648 times
Reputation: 17378
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
It is unfortunate that the urban fabric in many neighborhoods were altered, but the fact remains, the decline wasn't caused by the city planners.
This is true. The population left Pittsburgh in DROVES because a collapse of industry that built this area. Real estate investors sucked up the properties and broke them up into what was needed, super low income housing. A once beautiful huge home (mansion) is now broken up into 8 units and destroyed forever. Almost ALL of East Liberty fell to nothing. Then the super poor living there were totally depressed and didn't care at all. Just left everything go to nothing. Litter, crime, drugs and all the depressing mess followed. Those home can never come back to what they were, but some are at least coming back to a livable state. It was sad times and really still is. I look at those amazing homes on Negley that are ruined and wonder what it must have been like when all the people were on those front porches talking to one and other after a hard day's work. No TV or stupid media, just friendship with the neighbors. Must have been pretty cool. Pittsburgh had a great run back then. It is very different now. The middle class and those with some money need to take back the city for it to really turn. People will never really fully engage with the city if they have to worry about safety and schools all the time. We all know that is true, but it isn't popular to say.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2012, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,227 posts, read 16,819,013 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
I always find it funny when people suggest that urban-renewal projects caused the decline of inner city neighborhoods.

East Liberty was going to decline no matter what city planner did, or didn't do.
that's not entirely true since the feds were also funding the interstate highways, setting mortgage policy, etc. of course, I know you mean local planners. there's really nothing funny about what they did
Quote:
In St. Louis, 33 low-income housing towers, known as the Pruitt-Igoe development, were built in the 1950s and torn down as crime-ridden failures in the 1970s. Today, the site remains vacant and overgrown with weeds; a redevelopment plan is tied up by a legal dispute over tax incentives.
east liberty
Quote:
East Liberty's $58 million urban-renewal plan demolished 1,100 homes and relocated 3,900 people. A pedestrian mall was expected to be a magnet for shoppers. Traffic was rerouted around that mall in a way that meant drivers passing through saw only the backs of the stores. Jumbles of old shops and homes yielded to parking lots. The poor moved into new high rises.
the only thing this jerk had to say was
Quote:
"It didn't bloom like we had hoped," conceded Robert Pease, 87 years old, who oversaw the project as head of Pittsburgh's Urban Redevelopment Authority in the 1960s.
I find it funny when people suggest that destroying functional areas and replacing it with projects, nothing, or shoddy development didn't harm cities across the country. while urban renewal may not have been the sole driver of decline, it certainly exacerbated it.
Quote:
Spurred by the U.S. Housing Act of 1949, large, federally funded urban-renewal projects tore up scores of cities in the 1950s and 1960s, clearing areas that were considered hopeless slums. "In many cases but it destroyed active if not thriving communities," said Patrick Phillips, chief executive officer of the Urban Land Institute, a Washington-based nonprofit whose members include real-estate developers and lenders. Instead of preserving interesting old architecture, planners often razed vast areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
This is true. The population left Pittsburgh in DROVES because a collapse of industry that built this area. Real estate investors sucked up the properties and broke them up into what was needed, super low income housing. A once beautiful huge home (mansion) is now broken up into 8 units and destroyed forever. Almost ALL of East Liberty fell to nothing. Then the super poor living there were totally depressed and didn't care at all. Just left everything go to nothing. Litter, crime, drugs and all the depressing mess followed. Those home can never come back to what they were, but some are at least coming back to a livable state. It was sad times and really still is. I look at those amazing homes on Negley that are ruined and wonder what it must have been like when all the people were on those front porches talking to one and other after a hard day's work. No TV or stupid media, just friendship with the neighbors. Must have been pretty cool. Pittsburgh had a great run back then. It is very different now. The middle class and those with some money need to take back the city for it to really turn. People will never really fully engage with the city if they have to worry about safety and schools all the time. We all know that is true, but it isn't popular to say.
right but what he is saying is that public housing and demolition of a vast swath of the neighborhood had nothing to do with this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2012, 02:04 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
26,137 posts, read 25,973,648 times
Reputation: 17378
Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
...right but what he is saying is that public housing and demolition of a vast swath of the neighborhood had nothing to do with this.
Public housing to the level in East Liberty will really hurt is. There needs to be a ton of build up to compensate for what the dumb government is currently doing to that area. Just too much section 8 stuff to be a really nice place. It is what it is, but lets not get too fired up. It is FULL of government leach people that will always litter and make the area look bad. Larimer is right there as well and that is where I think the bike theft ring is from. Just a hunch.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2012, 02:22 PM
 
Location: United States
12,390 posts, read 7,096,148 times
Reputation: 6135
Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
right but what he is saying is that public housing and demolition of a vast swath of the neighborhood had nothing to do with this.
You are misunderstanding what I wrote.

Many urban renewal projects did indeed exacerbated the decline, but there are many examples of neighborhoods that didn't suffer urban renewal, but still saw dramatic decline. Many of such neighborhoods are still in a state of decline.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2012, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,227 posts, read 16,819,013 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
You are misunderstanding what I wrote.

Many urban renewal projects did indeed exacerbated the decline, but there are many examples of neighborhoods that didn't suffer urban renewal, but still saw dramatic decline. Many of such neighborhoods are still in a state of decline.
They were often one of many things driving people out of cities. Hard to imagine knocking target down to build projects but that's essentially what they did. Sure some projects were worse than others (Allegheny ctr) but most did make things worse. They were essentially at war with the American way of life at the time and urban.renewal was one front in that war. Nothing the planners could do would change the 52% corporate tax rate and 25% cap gains but they were dismantling neighborhoods,lives,and livelihoods. I don't think anyone would argue east liberty fared better than central Lawrenceville.

Last edited by pman; 07-18-2012 at 05:47 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-18-2012, 09:52 PM
 
20,273 posts, read 33,014,869 times
Reputation: 2911
It is impossible to rerun history, but East Liberty has such a fundamentally good location that I think it is a good bet it would have started seriously redeveloping much earlier if it hadn't been trashed by "urban renewal".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2012, 07:24 AM
CFP
 
475 posts, read 624,533 times
Reputation: 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
It is impossible to rerun history, but East Liberty has such a fundamentally good location that I think it is a good bet it would have started seriously redeveloping much earlier if it hadn't been trashed by "urban renewal".
That's the first statement you've made since I started trolling this board that I agree with 100%.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2012, 01:14 PM
 
Location: 15206
1,860 posts, read 2,579,198 times
Reputation: 1301
Some interesting mapping from the WSJ article:
Urban Renewal in Pittsburgh - Map and Photos - WSJ.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2012, 01:22 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
26,137 posts, read 25,973,648 times
Reputation: 17378
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
It is impossible to rerun history, but East Liberty has such a fundamentally good location that I think it is a good bet it would have started seriously redeveloping much earlier if it hadn't been trashed by "urban renewal".
Well, the contraction in population and slumlords breaking the places up to house low income killed the area. It probably will never fully recover, BUT I am not ruling it out completely. I agree 100% with you Brian, East Liberty has a great location. Some of the best shopping in Western PA and a very short bus ride into the city that will always be running due to profitability. Therefore, East Liberty will do well. I just with they wouldn't have put so many low income places there. It is too prime to kill the wealthy from moving in. More wealthy people in Pittsburgh proper means, more wage tax, taxes and a demand for better living, which is a benefit to the city. That has always been my concern. More revenue for the city itself and not just the nearby suburbs.

Good post Brian.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Pittsburgh
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:01 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top