Plans for housing in the strip district (Pittsburgh, Oakland: cul-de-sac, townhouse)

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Ah, a voice of reason and a smart one too. Well said. Sorry, but the days of building new construction on prime riverfront property are.... well over. Goodness. Brian is sure against people with money it seems. I personally don't like labeling people or stereotyping anyone like that.

I tend to disagree. He is all for increasing the Downtown population, and the only people moving there will be the upper class. Just look at the NorTside, new townhomes in the 300K range, where will real Pittsburghers go?

[CaptainPittsburgh]

Restricted access residential development in the Strip District sounds atrocious to me. Considering the history of the neighborhood, I actually find the notion downright disrespectful.

[gg]

Originally Posted by CaptainPittsburgh

Restricted access residential development in the Strip District sounds atrocious to me. Considering the history of the neighborhood, I actually find the notion downright disrespectful.

\

What history are you talking about? It was a truck delivery area and a produce fish market place. There was never many homes in and around there that I know of.

Anyway, I have no problem with the older wealthy set to have a place gated there. They need a place to and I think it is disrespectful to not let them have a little spot. Goodness, not every place has to be mixed income, etc. Many don't want to live with section 8'ers and the super poor that litter and don't care. What is the problem with some folks wanting a little private enclave? Like I already said, I would NEVER live in some gated place and I also said I HATE them, but I won't tell others that they can't have that. What kind of person does that?

[gg]

Originally Posted by Copanut

I tend to disagree. He is all for increasing the Downtown population, and the only people moving there will be the upper class. Just look at the NorTside, new townhomes in the 300K range, where will real Pittsburghers go?

I have to disagree myself. Brian really is all about his agenda and ideas and doesn't look at things objectively at all. He would hate it if the area went high end by the river. He would want a mixed income area there like he wants everywhere. There isn't as big of a market for that as he thinks. There is a market for like minds to be in an area together. Washington's Landing is a good example. That place has done VERY well and it is isolated as well as full of like minds. People need to look at these things objectively. As I have stated I would NEVER live in a gated community. I don't even believe in them, but I don't want to tell others they can't have them. Sorry to repeat myself, but it seems I need to. Brian would never feel something is okay unless he wants it. There is a difference.

[CaptainPittsburgh]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

\
What history are you talking about? It was a truck delivery area and a produce fish market place. There was never many homes in and around there that I know of.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Its history is as proletariat as you can get: mills, factories, raw materials shipping. Restaurants only came to the Strip to feed all the shift workers that were packed into the place back in the day.

That industry was a huge part of what made the city successful, obviously. Today, I think the neighborhood retains a portion of that proletariat aesthetic and with the fresh produce markets and street vendors, some of that working class culture as well. I know some find it unattractive, but, to me, it's quite beautiful and the historical linkage is a huge part of that.

The thought of a section of the Strip becoming a gated playground for rich people makes me want to gag. Of course, this is personal opinion and I understand that others will feel differently. We can't all see things the same way, I suppose.

[BrianTH]

The Strip District actually had a population of 4363 in the 1940 Census:

The Strip District: Statistics

Of course the churches are a clue that it used to have more of a residential element.

Edit: There was also a "Hooverville" there during the Great Depression:

http://www.clpgh.org/exhibit/neighbo...strip_n26.html



http://www.clpgh.org/exhibit/neighbo...strip_n24.html



Edit #2: According to the timeline in the appendix, the population of the Strip was about 12,000 in 1860 (70% German or Irish), and 18,000(!) in 1915 (now only 10% German or Irish, but still 80% foreign-born--must have been a colorful neighborhood):

http://www.pitt.edu/~sabinad/courses/Strip_Project.pdf

Apparently from 1940-1970, a lot of the remaining housing in the Strip was condemned and razed.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The Strip District actually had a population of 4363 in the 1940 Census:

The Strip District: Statistics

Of course the churches are a clue that it used to have more of a residential element.

The population was even considerably higher than that in the Strip before 1940. The Pennsylvania Railroad expanded their facilities in the 1920's and 1930's in the strip taking out many homes, churches and other buildings especially in the lower strip area.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

The population was even considerably higher than that in the Strip before 1940. The Pennsylvania Railroad expanded their facilities in the 1920's and 1930's in the strip taking out many homes, churches and other buildings especially in the lower strip area.

Right you are--and I found some documentation included in an Edit above. Looks like the peak circa 1915 was around 18,000 residents. It also appears that in addition to the railroad expansion, the Great Depression caused a lot of Strip employers to close or move, and the Great St. Patrick's Day Flood of 1936 caused more closures.

[gg]

Originally Posted by CaptainPittsburgh

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. Its history is as proletariat as you can get: mills, factories, raw materials shipping. Restaurants only came to the Strip to feed all the shift workers that were packed into the place back in the day.

That industry was a huge part of what made the city successful, obviously. Today, I think the neighborhood retains a portion of that proletariat aesthetic and with the fresh produce markets and street vendors, some of that working class culture as well. I know some find it unattractive, but, to me, it's quite beautiful and the historical linkage is a huge part of that.

The thought of a section of the Strip becoming a gated playground for rich people makes me want to gag. Of course, this is personal opinion and I understand that others will feel differently. We can't all see things the same way, I suppose.

I completely understand your view. Thanks. As I have said MANY times, I am not really happy about the idea, BUT I am trying to keep an open mind and trying to understand the market for a gated community. As we can see Lawrenceville has transformed itself into a young hipster kind of place with a huge mix. Where do the older wealthier people go if they want to be very close to downtown? Do they have a place? Is it right for us to say no? These are the questions I ask myself to find some balance and NOT be selfish about it. Just because people have money shouldn't be a right to discriminate against them. They are people to you know and have the rights of anyone else.

So lets say this gated spot when through. What is the problem? We can't walk from the strip to every part of the river? What about the long loading dock that is sitting there blocking direct access as it is? If there is a gated area, will they not let a pathway through for cycles/joggers and walkers, or will the fence run all the way to the river? I believe they are leaving a strip for a path, correct?

Anyway, discrimination against the older wealthy people isn't very attractive. They are in the fall of their lives and many worked very hard to get where they got.

Like I said, I really dislike gated communities, but I do understand people that want them. One of the reasons some older retired people like a gated community is because they have a winter home in Florida and when they are gone they can relax knowing their place is secure. I think people can understand that.

[gg]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

The population was even considerably higher than that in the Strip before 1940. The Pennsylvania Railroad expanded their facilities in the 1920's and 1930's in the strip taking out many homes, churches and other buildings especially in the lower strip area.

And this has to do with what today? Because there were homes there at one time means what?