How much longer will the East End stay affordable? (Pittsburgh: middle-class, top neighborhoods)

[steindle]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

Neighborhoods like Troy Hill and Brookline are mostly off of my radar because of their relative isolation.

Obviously I understand what you mean -- there are literally only two ways in and out of Troy Hill from the rest of the city right now... But as a recent Troy Hill homeowner, I have to distinguish it from Brookline (which I also like in its own right) a little. Troy Hill is literally 2 miles (a 10-minute bus ride) from Downtown, a short walk from the 54C/D bus line, near East Ohio, near the stadiums... and some weekend mornings when I finally wake up, my wife has already walked to the Strip and back for groceries. Plus once Rialto opens again it (at least where we live) will be a 15-minute walk away from Lawrenceville.

I like Brookline, and it obviously has a more substantial and improving business district as it stands, but if your definition of "isolation" is easy, quick access to the city's core amenities, I honestly think Troy Hill is not nearly as isolated.

[Uptown kid]

[quote]I know most of this post has focused on one neighborhood, but what's happening in Lawrenceville seems to be happening, albeit to a lesser extent, in other neighborhoods in the East End, such as East Liberty. Somebody tells me that, if I recall, Friendship and Garfield are two of the few places in the East End that are cheap (for Pittsburgh prices, lol) Do you think they are going to be gentrified soon?[quote]

Friendship=always been in good shape
Garfield, for the most part, (ie. most of Garfield excluding the Penn Ave Corridor south of Broad St) will take some time.

[ryanm3685]

Originally Posted by steindle

This is my dad's store, incidentally. I'll tell him someone described it as "really cool" -- he'll get a kick out of that!

It was a good time there. Too bad it's locked up frequently, or else I'd come in to talk with him. Was he the one who talked to a beer exec in New Jersey, angry that Western PA lost a brewery but NJ gained one? The two ended up becoming good friends that night.

I also love the accordions and Iron City stuff in there, even though I'm not much of a beer fan.

[eschaton]

Interesting thread.

As a Lawrenceville resident for the past five years, I've seen it myself. I bought an inhabitable fixer-upper for $53,000 in 2007. My plan all along was that by the time we finished up all of the work inside, we'd sell it for double the price, and I may have even been a bit pessimistic. Houses no bigger than mine which still have all the "grandma" finishes are selling for $100K and up now. To find a lower price, you need to go to Upper, or buy a really sketchy home in an alley.

That said, this is just a natural cycle as neighborhoods grow in desirability. It's actually a bit less acute in Pittsburgh I think, given there's so many areas of improving desirability to go around. Something to keep in mind with someplace like Lawrenceville is a lot of the old-timers are homeowners. The renters tend to be recent transplants, either students/yuppies in the higher end places, or people displaced from seriously unsafe neighborhoods in the lower-end rental properties. The locals will easily be able to stay as long as they want, as they either own their houses outright, or have a mortgage gained when the property was much, much cheaper. They can stay on for quite awhile yet, and make a tidy profit when they leave.

Anyway, despite the high prices, gentrification is far from over. Only around 20% of Central Lawrenceville's over 25 population have college degrees, which shows the "gentry" are still a severe minority. They're also a lot thicker around Main & Fisk than my neck of the woods on the flats. Plus there are still tons of eyesores. Hell, you can't get a house for much under $200,000 in the South Side, but large portions of the housing stock there are still fairly distressed looking. It's going to be a long process.

As an aside, I'm on the record as thinking that Upper Lawrenceville will not gentrify in any real way. Butler Street is starting to look really nice up there (it's amazing to compare with how bombed out it still looks on Google Maps), but there's just not the same housing stock as in the other sections of the neighborhood. 90% of the housing is siding monstrosities which I don't see yuppies ever finding appealing. Plus there are the safety issues regarding the alleys. I think the current racial transformation will continue, and it will become a mostly-black area within the next decade.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

By the way, Friendship is not what I would call cheap anymore.

As a homeowner, I agree, but he may have been coming at it as a renter. A lot of those big old houses are still subdivided, and they may remain relatively affordable. I think ex-roomate who lives on South Negley pays $675 for a two-bedroom, which isn't horrible.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

Fortunately, Pittsburgh is blessed with many areas that have the bones to become desirable. And I think that is the answer to your question of "how to do gentrification right", you have to keep spreading it around. Unfortunately, I don't know how best to accomplish that. One way is good transportation (both roads and mass transit). For example, Beechview wouldn't even be on my radar if it didn't have the T. Neighborhoods like Troy Hill and Brookline are mostly off of my radar because of their relative isolation. So effective transportation solutions are one way to encourage the gentrification to spread around a bit and keep things affordable.

I honestly wonder if the next "hip" Pittsburgh Neighborhood won't be in Pittsburgh at all. I think Millvale has all the bones needed to have a resurgence, for example. It's a great place to live if you want to bike to downtown for work, the downtown isn't thriving, but it's not dead, and it's got good walking access to Lawrenceville.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Uptown kid

Friendship=always been in good shape

Not true. From what I understand Friendship was a "gritty" area during the 1980s and 1990s. It was considered part of East Liberty at that time, but never really had the racial turnover that the rest of that neighborhood did. Still, there were a lot of issues with drug addicts and random crazies, if not gangbangers.

[BrianTH]

In the early/mid 1990s, I'd say Friendship was more student-ghetto than ghetto-ghetto.

Anyway, I already consider Millvale to be an honorary member of Pittsburgh's Hipster Belt (including also Lawrenceville, Polish Hill, and Bloomfield).

[FreightTrainRunning]

I lived in Friendship in the nineties and parts of it were still pretty rough at that point, especially if you lived closer to Penn Avenue. There was a fair amount of gun violence and murders and a lot of prostitution. The theft was pretty out of control too, I couldn't leave anything in my yard on on my porch or in my car without it getting stolen instantly. From my point of view, the area has changed hugely in the last 10 - 15 years.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by wyoh

D.C. has experienced a ton of gentrification in the last two decades or so. In my experience when a neighborhood ceases to become affordable the gentrification just moves to a different neighborhood. So Lawrenceville may not be affordable for much longer, when it isn't people looking for a bargain will start fixing up other less desirable neighborhoods.

And it looks like the Garfield neighborhood is next to pick up off L'ville momentum.