Cranberry ultra-growth? (Pittsburgh, Butler: crime, home, neighborhoods)

[greg42]

While any outcomes are far from certain of course, it would make sense to judge Cranberry by what they actually have in their long-term plan (begun in 2005 and formally adopted in 2009) as opposed to assuming they continue to not plan.

Although it's not especially well organized, some of the documents here under the Cranberry Plan heading may be of interest Cranberry Township - Official Website

[BrianTH]

Reston is in fact an important model for such autocentric-suburban to urbanist-suburban retrofitting nationwide. I also think it will become cooler over time--brand new urbanist developments in the suburbs often have that Potemkin Village feel, but as successive waves of investment occur they should start feeling more natural.

The thing is, though, it isn't cheap to retrofit autocentric suburbs in this fashion. If current trends continue it will very likely happen all over the country, because that is the only way you could plausibly accommodate all the people who will want to live in such areas. But it will be slow going, and disinvested older places that are either already laid out along such lines, or places that are a blank slate (brownfields and greenfields) have a fundamental cost and speed advantage.

[Goinback2011]

People didn't choose Cranberry vs. some city neighborhood. They chose Cranberry vs some other suburb in Allegheny County. And Cranberry won because of lower taxes.

Jeez, just ask the people who live there WHY they live there.

[greg42]

FWIW, because I ran across some stats circa 2000:

24.4% of Cranberry resident workers worked in Cranberry
22.3% worked in City of Pittsburgh

The next 4 are Marshall, Ross, McCandless and Pine, with Marshall at 7.2% and the latter 3 at 2-3%. Then Monroeville. Yeah, 1.8% of Cranberry residents worked in Monroeville and 1.6% in Robinson.

Also, even in 2000, 3% of Cranberry's workers commuted in from the City of Pittsburgh. Only 19.7% of Cranberry's workforce resided in Cranberry. 4% came from next door New Sewickley and 3% from Economy and 3% lived in Butler City but worked in Cranberry. Only 2.6% came from Adams although that boom is perhaps mostly more recent than 2000.

12 years on I would expect a small shift towards local live/work but not a ton. For example, the Westinghouse move, I suspect new Westinghouse employees live nearby, but many existing ones who were with the company in Monroeville may not have moved from their homes. Depends upon where their homes were/how painful the commute and perhaps where any children were in school, etc. More people work in Cranberry now but more people also live there now and the percentage split of people who move there isn't likely to be swung entirely towards people working locally.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

While it would be nice if more of the people flocking to sprawling Murrysville, Cranberry Township, Peters Township, etc. would instead consider reinvigorating established places like McKees Rocks, Stowe Township, Pittsburgh's West End, Pittsburgh's Hilltop Neighborhoods, West Mifflin, Wilkinsburg, etc.

If you honestly think you're going to convince the 2012 American that "you should totally find a home in Wilkinsburg or Knoxville instead of a safe suburb!" you must be totally nuts.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

If you honestly think you're going to convince the 2012 American that "you should totally find a home in Wilkinsburg or Knoxville instead of a safe suburb!" you must be totally nuts.

I'd even be hesitant to settle in nice city neighborhoods like Squirrel Hill or Shadyside. I understand some of the neighborhood schools there are better than people give them credit for, but I would be much more comfortable sending my child to a Fox Chapel or Mt. Lebanon school. Spending upwards of $20k per year per child at Winchester Thurston just sounds crazy to me. Even if I'm ultra-successful and pushing the seven figure mark, I would much rather put that money away for college.

[BrianTH]

The basic pitch is pretty simple. If you can reduce your commuting time, you have more time to spend with your family. A less autocentric lifestyle is safer for your children, particularly as they get older. If the traditional public schools are not an option, charter schools may be, and even if you have to pay for private schools you can fund those expenditures out of your savings on transportation and housing costs.

Of course not everyone is going to be persuaded by these considerations. However, as crime rates drop in urban areas around the country, including in Pittsburgh, and housing and transportation costs continue to escalate, more and more families are in fact considering alternatives to autocentric suburbs.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

I'd even be hesitant to settle in nice city neighborhoods like Squirrel Hill or Shadyside. I understand some of the neighborhood schools there are better than people give them credit for, but I would be much more comfortable sending my child to a Fox Chapel or Mt. Lebanon school. Spending upwards of $20k per year per child at Winchester Thurston just sounds crazy to me. Even if I'm ultra-successful and pushing the seven figure mark, I would much rather put that money away for college.

Yup, and that's just looking at the situation from the school perspective.

I mean think about it, your normal American wants to get up, go to work, maybe go home and watch some TV, catch a dinner and a movie once sometimes and maybe hang out with some friends when they have time. You can do all that in the suburbs and be happy as a clam. Architecture, diversity, and culture are low on the totem pole for many Americans and nothing is going to change that. The elitist urban types just seem so out of touch with what mainstream America is all about.

Then there's that whole tax thing....

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

The elitist urban types just seem so out of touch with what mainstream America is all about.

Thanks for joining us Governor Palin.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The basic pitch is pretty simple. If you can reduce your commuting time, you have more time to spend with your family. A less autocentric lifestyle is safer for your children, particularly as they get older.

Well the thing is that a ton of jobs are actually in the suburbs and not in the city. Nearly all of the jobs I've had have consisted of me (who lives in the city) commuting the suburbs (Robinson, Canonsburg, Monroeville). My current one is first one actually within the city limits.