Where Pittsburgh could fit 100,000 more people... (Philadelphia, Lebanon: best neighborhood, real estate market, foreclosures)

[selltheburgh]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

^ Imagine the frustrations of prospective first-time home-buyers, such as yours truly, who feel like they are effectively being priced out of the Pittsburgh housing market due to developers' reluctance (or inability) to keep pace with housing demand in the urban core.

The costs of most houses in Pgh (that you say you can't afford) are still well below the cost to build new. Building a new home isn't cheap and then there's the cost of utility services etc.

It isn't the developers fault that you are being priced out. It is that you are 10 years too late or looking in the wrong areas.

[selltheburgh]

Originally Posted by ferrarisnowday

Goodness! I'll have to remember that next time I'm negotiating my salary.

More housing seems like a good thing to me, though. I'm tired of making offers on homes at or above asking price and still having other people outbid me. I feel bad for the realtors in town, it's obviously a tough market to gauge in Pittsburgh and they are having trouble suggesting proper price points.

Its been an crazy year as an agent. 25 of the last 40 contracts I've been involved with this year were multiple offer situations. On the other hand, I've had a great year so far and my numbers are better than last year for the first two quarters.

[selltheburgh]

Originally Posted by eccotecc

Brian,

I'm happy to hear East Liberty is trying to be revived. I'm a huge fan of restoring all the vintage neighborhoods. I guess what I'm making a poor attempt at saying is East Liberty has a negative stigma about it. I lived for a year in East Liberty off Negely on Margaretta St in the early 70's. The area had recently had millions of dollars invested in it and it still never took off. I don't recall ever going there to shop. All I can say is I hope it makes it this time around.

I know a million in 1970 was a lot more than a million now but:

Margaretta st has been horrible for the past 10-20 years and mostly owned by slum lords.

East Liberty Development owns most of those mansions now and intends to turn them back into single family houses. That creates stability. That'll be more than a million invested in just that block.

There still is sort of a negative stigma about east liberty just as there was in Lawrenceville 10 years ago. Lville was known as a heroin headquarters.

East Liberty won't be Manhattan or even Shadyside, but it'll continue to grow and be nicer over the next decade.

[airwave09]

Originally Posted by Copanut

But over 30 years ago the population in the city was almost twice as much, what am I missing?

You just answered your own question. All of those people used to live in the city where public transportation was easily accessible.

Most of the people who then left the city plus many newcomers from outside the region now live in sprawling suburbs, where everyone in the family needs their own car to get anywhere.

[gg]

Originally Posted by airwave09

Most of the people who then left the city plus many newcomers from outside the region now live in sprawling suburbs, where everyone in the family needs their own car to get anywhere.

The question is, why did people leave the city for the suburbs? Good roads only play a small roll in actual reasons. The real reason is better schools, less crime, less blight and the list goes on and on. People aren't really moving back much at all. Cranberry is still amazingly growing. It might be its own city someday. I don't think people wanted to drive further to work everyday. They wanted to be in areas that promote education, cleaner living, less crime and so-on. Can anyone blame them? Who wants to deal with taking a chance on magnet schools when you can just move to a suburb district of your choice and not worry about it?

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by eccotecc

I guess what I'm making a poor attempt at saying is East Liberty has a negative stigma about it. I lived for a year in East Liberty off Negely on Margaretta St in the early 70's. The area had recently had millions of dollars invested in it and it still never took off. I don't recall ever going there to shop. All I can say is I hope it makes it this time around.

There is no denying the truth of what you observed back then--the money and effort expended to try to "save" East Liberty actually just ended up making things much worse.

My point, though, is that didn't turn out that way back then because East Liberty is cursed, or otherwise fundamentally incapable of success. That happened because what they were specifically trying to do was a really, really bad idea. There have been many studies and indeed entire books written about why that general approach to urban redevelopment--which did not just happen in Pittsburgh--ended up such a disaster pretty much everywhere it was tried. And there has been a lot of progress since then in figuring what urban redevelopment efforts CAN succeed. And in fact what has been happening over the last several years in East Liberty is basically an application of those hard lessons learned.

So I am definitely not suggesting we should refuse to learn from history. But when viewing all of the relevant history, both of East Liberty specifically and similar places in general, the lesson to be learned is that both success and failure are possible, and that the outcome you get depends in part on the approach you take. And with that overall perspective in mind, the incident you are referring to is understandable as a very bad failure produced by a very bad approach.

[selltheburgh]

Originally Posted by Copanut

But over 30 years ago the population in the city was almost twice as much, what am I missing?

The collapse of the steel industry, the outsourcing of labor and the definition of a rust belt city.

[gbpriv]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

The question is, why did people leave the city for the suburbs? Good roads only play a small roll in actual reasons. The real reason is better schools, less crime, less blight and the list goes on and on. People aren't really moving back much at all. Cranberry is still amazingly growing. It might be its own city someday. I don't think people wanted to drive further to work everyday. They wanted to be in areas that promote education, cleaner living, less crime and so-on. Can anyone blame them? Who wants to deal with taking a chance on magnet schools when you can just move to a suburb district of your choice and not worry about it?

When my parents moved out of Highland Park when I was 3 or 4, their car had been stolen twice (once recovered, the second time not), and since they didn't want to send me to a private school, I would have been in the Peabody HS feeder pattern. Both parents drove and travelled for work so public transportation did not matter, and our current location is only 10 minutes from Highland Park and most other places in the city. Growing up I would spend most of my time in the city neighborhoods anyway.

My parents are interested in selling our home in the suburbs and moving back to a city neighborhood soon but transitioning back to an older home that would need to have a garage, A/C, and other amenities is a little more difficult.

[eccotecc]

I agree with what everyone has said about the demise of the core cities in many parts of our country, Pittsburgh included. I would like to offer another thought and that's the construction of the interstate system. Would Cranberry be as popular as it is if it wasn't for I 79? Living in the suburbs is one thing, but getting to and from work is another. I also think with the present cost of gas, many younger people are considering reversing the trend to move further and further from regional economic engines. If enough good people have the courage to move into economically depressed areas and a willingness to spend their money at locally owned establishments, then these neighborhoods can be turned around and become as safe as the suburbs and have schools as good or even better than what is in the suburbs. It takes involvement and a passion for change. People need to have a willingness to attend planning commission meetings, city council meetings, and school board meetings. It can be done.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

It isn't the developers fault that you are being priced out. It is that you are 10 years too late or looking in the wrong areas.

You're right. I should have been house-hunting in the East End when I was 15.