Relocating from Houston, Texas with many questions! (Pittsburgh, Penn Hills: homes, school districts)

[Bong477]

For the OP, try to ignore the bickering... the suburbs vs. city issue comes up frequently on this forum with generally a fairly strong bias towards the city. Although there isn't a whole lot of skin color diversity in the suburbs, there isn't much racism (at least in the relatively affluent areas you are looking in). If you want suburbs and don't mind not having many other black kids around so long as you and your family are treated fairly, I wouldn't be concerned living there.

It's also a common topic whether suburban schools are really better, whether its just a matter of the socioeconomics of their students, and whether it even matters. There are no simple answers to this and I think its something that parents need to sort through themselves.

That said, it is worth considering Point Breeze and Squirrel Hill as a possible options. There are some pluses and minuses, but I think for most people these are suburban enough but retain some of the benefits of living in the city to at least consider. If you want a large yard and don't have a million dollars, its probably out. The homes are generally pretty old and taking care of an old home can be rewarding but not always a joy. I personally wouldn't live in PB North (which is Point Breeze north of Penn) though. Its cheaper for a reason. This has been discussed heavily in other threads here and a simple search can find the different viewpoints on the subject.
The public schools in the city are a little more complicated to sort through and acheivement scores vary a lot based on race with black kids doing substantially worse than whites. The public schools in the affluent suburbs don't get broken down by race generally because there just aren't enough minorities to make the stats meaningful. Exactly what all this means for your family, one can only make a guess and I think you need to decide for yourself what's most important and what's a tradeoff you are willing to make because you won't find a sidewalk community with new homes and plenty of racial diversity that has good schools in Pittsburgh.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by SPSGuy

If she is looking for a excellent school district does Point Breeze really help her out?

Once you take into account the demographics of Colfax/Aldlerdice being different (e.g., having a significant number of black kids), and the unfortunate but real nationwide gap between average black and white test scores, there's essentially no difference between the public schools in the Lower East End and the top suburbs. Both black and white students score far above county averages in the Lower East End, it's just that the gap itself isn't eliminated entirely.

The only thing that could strike against it is there are some poor black areas which go there as well (parts of Homewood, East Hills, Lincoln-Lemington-Belmar). Given at least some of student performance is socially contagious, it could be possible her kids would fall in with a bad crowd who tell them "trying hard is for white kids" - but if they have parents who are upper-middle class professionals already they'll be at less risk for this.

[SPSGuy]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I think so, but it depends on what she specifically has in mind.

If you look at the issue in depth, it becomes apparent that the schools serving Point Breeze do a relatively good job serving a diverse population of students, and at the end of the process many students go to college, and some of the students go on to the top universities in the country.

The model you see in most of the suburban districts with high reputations starts with having very little socioeconomic diversity, and then they pretty much get the results you would expect given the nature of their student population. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I think it is debatable whether that means those are actually more "excellent" schools.

I should note there are some highly-regarded suburban districts which have more socioeconomic diversity than most of their peers (albeit not as much as the City), such as Fox Chapel. In cases like that, there is a bit stronger argument to be made that their apparent excellence is not just derivative of their student population.

Thank you for the answer. I personally never gave much mind to the PPS school district until recently, as I am trying to learn and research more about it. It is a mixed bag from everything I hear. After looking and waiting for new jobs I feel I could be back in Pittsburgh within two years and unlike the OP I know the neighborhoods well, but know nothing about PPS school district. The feeder patterns to Elementary schools seems fine. Which would be great if I rent for the first year or two. But after buying I would need to be certain about High Schools later down the road, and still am not confident of Taylor Alderdice and PPS as a whole as much as suburban school districts.

[greg42]

Come on now, I'm all for suggesting the city even when the people moving here wouldn't necessarily have thought of the city. Often that is because of assumptions made that are not true (expense, crime, whatever). So now it has been suggested, good. But in this case I don't think it's going to go far. The OP's top priority is school district. Even with Allderdice feeder pattern, I am not thinking that fits with the OP's priorities for top school district. Also there is a preference for newer homes among other things.

It's certainly right to point out that there aren't many African American students in the suburban schools. I don't believe this would result in them not being treated fairly there, but there could be some modest discomfort I suppose if that is not what they are used to. It's hard to say for sure unless you are a similar family in one of those districts (which we are not).

[SPSGuy]

Originally Posted by Bong477

For the OP, try to ignore the bickering... the suburbs vs. city issue comes up frequently on this forum with generally a fairly strong bias towards the city.

I don't see anybody bickering between city vs suburbs at all. Inquiring about schools is something that many people need to do.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by SPSGuy

Thank you for the answer. I personally never gave much mind to the PPS school district until recently, as I am trying to learn and research more about it. It is a mixed bag from everything I hear. After looking and waiting for new jobs I feel I could be back in Pittsburgh within two years and unlike the OP I know the neighborhoods well, but know nothing about PPS school district. The feeder patterns to Elementary schools seems fine. Which would be great if I rent for the first year or two. But after buying I would need to be certain about High Schools later down the road, and still am not confident of Taylor Alderdice and PPS as a whole as much as suburban school districts.

There's no reason to worry about high schools I think, because if you ended up in a neighborhood with a good elementary school, you could apply to the magnet school system annually until your kids managed to get in. Once they were in the magnets, they can't be kicked out, which pretty much guarantees them a spot at some magnet high school, and CAPA and Obama are even better schools than Allderdice. Adjusted for student demographics, they tie or beat the top school districts in the county.

[trackstar13]

Here are some other school rankings you might want to check out:

1) Upper St. Clair
2) Fox Chapel
3) Mt. Lebanon
4) North Allegheny
5) Pine Richland

America

As others have mentioned, many of the top schools in Pittsburgh do not have very much diversity. As my addition to this thread, I might add checking out North Allegheny since it is a suburban district with a little diversity. I believe it is about 90 white, 8% Asian, 1% African-American, and 1% Hispanic.

North Allegheny School District - Diversity in the Classroom - The New York Times

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by SPSGuy

But after buying I would need to be certain about High Schools later down the road, and still am not confident of Taylor Alderdice and PPS as a whole as much as suburban school districts.

I can understand why people would view it as a risk, but I can tell you that having looked at these issues in some detail, I am quite confident that if our kids went to Allderdice, the quality of their education and their future prospects in life would be essentially the same as if they went to any of the notable suburban high schools.

I might recommend looking at this school profile if you are interested in the issue of college placement (as I am):

http://www.pps.k12.pa.us/14322058101...%20PROFILE.pdf

[eschaton]

Here's an old thread I started with some data on Pittsburgh schools with test breakdowns by race. It was written from the perspective of trying to convince white parents not to be scared to enroll their kids in PPS, but there are conclusions about relatively high performance for black students (compared to elsewhere in the county) at certain schools in Pittsburgh as well.

[wpipkins]

Originally Posted by htowngirl40

We will be relocating to Pittsburgh from Houston, Texas. We currently live in a suburb outside the Houston Metro area. Our neighborhood is a sidewalk community with cul-de-sacs and homes ten years or younger in an excellent school district. The school district is very important to me so I wanted to know if anyone has any recommendations. Right now we're looking at South Fayette, Mt.Lebannon or Upper St. Clair. I know the houses will be older than what we're used to but schools is the most important factor in selecting a place to live. Diversity is somewhat of an issue as well, we are African American family. I would like my children to go to a school where they are treated well and fair.

Many African American families move to Pittsburgh without understanding the demographics of the Metro. I know of a few families who have moved from out of state and purchased homes in the Northern, Western and Southern suburbs. most of them have issues with being disconnected from the overall balck community when it comes to church and cultural events. Most of the black middle class is concentrated in the east end of the city and eastern suburbs. The school districts may not be as good but the social interaction would probably make up for this. I would focus on the east end of Pittsburgh or the eastern suburbs of Plum, Oakmont, Monroeville. Monroeville is one of the most diverse suburbs in Western PA and you will see others who look like you. You will be quite shocked at the lack of diversity in the south hills. I recenlty had to drive my family to the south hills village mall. You would have thought we were aliens in the place... It was not a unsafe or unfriendly environment, just kind of weird being literally the only black family in the entire mall.