Use Arena site for a transit station? (Lebanon, Wilkinsburg: live, buses)

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by pman

Bumpouts might be enough.

They would at least give you some room to stand. I think switching to natural gas buses will help make it more pleasant to stand on a confined street crowded with buses. At least I hope so.

[BrianTH]

The basic problem is you have a lot of buses coming inbound to Downtown from all directions at the same time, and they somehow need to loop around to get going back outbound (same basic deal with different emphasis in the evening). Stopping them at the periphery of Downtown (turning Downtown into a largely bus-free zone) would be pretty hostile to the bus riders. So that is how you get the hodge-podge of loops currently used, which maybe could be rationalized a bit more (that was part of the TDP, in fact), but fundamentally I just don't see how you can eliminate the need to use streets like Smithfield for some of the loops given the current infrastructure setup.

The only two possible solutions I see would be:

(A) create a system of bus tunnels under Downtown (extremely expensive); or

(B) create a common BRT-style bus-lane loop within Downtown using some wider streets (say something like Liberty-Stanwix-BoA-Grant), perhaps circulating only one way, although you might need it to go both ways to handle all the buses.

(B) seems to me to be financially feasible, and it would really simplify the bus system downtown, making it much friendlier for visitors. However, I think the only way to make it work is with dedicated bus-lanes, and those might be a tough sell, particularly on Grant.

An alternative version of B would be to complete the loop with one or both of the current bus lanes on Wood and Smithfield. Of course that doesn't entirely solve the problem identified here since you would still be using one or both of those streets, and it would necessitate two-way bus lanes on at least Liberty.

By the way, I think Smithfield is going to end up doing fine even as it stands--in fact Brooks Brothers just renewed their lease.

[ex-burgher]

This is a really great idea except it may not be centralized enough within downtown. However I still think it would be a good idea at least for transfers (buses could still have some stops downtown.) If you think about it, transfers in Pgh are often difficult for the elderly and for newcomers since it's not always clear where the stops are.

Every since Charlotte built their transit center (below), transfers have been made much easier and street congestion eased.

[Geeo]

We're alking about hundreds of buses here and limited geography in which to cram them all in at the height of rush hour. PAT needs to get as many people in and out in the shortest time span possible, so they need almost all the streets downtown to do it. The stops on Smithfield and at the Wood Street T station are always packed. Multiply that by the hundreds of other stops downtown and you see how many people take transit into and out of the city every day. One central point would never work.

[ex-burgher]

^yeah I see your point. More buses in Pittsburgh and difficult geography makes it difficult. Sure wish they brought back the direct buses from the burbs to Oakland. My mom used to take them, but now the transferring turns her off and she drives.

[Geeo]

Those U-Buses were nice - they went from the burbs directly to Oakland without a downtown transfer. Alas, years of funding cuts meant that they were one of the first to go.

[Blackbeauty212]

If I was going to put a hub somewhere...I would start with Allegheny Station and Route all Western Northside Routes to it...Plus maybe some of the West End Routes, using the West End Bridge.

That would take a lot of buses out of Downtown.

Also look at using S Hill Junc. as a Hub for South Hills Routes

The Eastern Suburb Local routes should feed to the East Busway @ EL, Wilkinsburg and Swissvale rather than going all the way Downtown and Oakland.

McKeesport Transit Center - should be Rehabbed and utilized as major transit center with frequent Express Service to Downtown and Oakland being fed from local McKeesport Feeder Routes. This may give McKeesport and the surrounding some sense of life again, since it would be well connected to the City.

[ctoocheck]

Yes, I would argue instead for improved bus infrastructure along the main bus loops, especially Liberty.

In an ideal situation, some auto access on such streets would also be restricted.
In an even more ideal situation, more people would take transit and it wouldn't be as big a deal to restrict cars in favor of moving buses and pedestrians.
Freiburg, Germany is an example (albeit with less complex routing through downtown); they have two main crossing streets in their city center that all the transit traffic is concentrated on. Of course auto traffic is also pretty restricted in the center as well.
Leipzig has most of the traffic in a loop around the center, with a couple buses that penetrate into the center. Here auto traffic is less restricted (except for on their main drag) but still of course less than in Pgh.

Oh, Germany *swoon* If only!

[Geeo]

Unfortunately, the transit loop in East Liberty is no more - it is now part of the Eastside development and will have buildings on it in a few years. The only way buses can get on the busway from that area is to use the ramp from the East Liberty bus garage, which is kind of inconvenient. Plus a lot of the people on those local routes from the east want to go to Oakland, so you can't hack off that part of the route.

When PAT rebuilt and re-opened the South Hills T in 1987, they proposed routing buses in the south hills to stations in Mt. Lebanon, Dormont, Castle Shannon and Wasahington Junction and having people take the T the rest of the way to the city with a free transfer. The communities out there screamed bloody murder and demande that they keep the existing bus routes all the way into the city, even though it duplicated the T route. They simply did not want to get off one vehicle and transfer to another.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

By the way, I think Smithfield is going to end up doing fine even as it stands--in fact Brooks Brothers just renewed their lease.

That's good to hear. The 600 block of Smithfield can seem dead at times. It's usually got so few cars on it, it's the best block for jaywalking downtown (though Forbes between Smithfield and Wood can be pretty empty, too). Two stores, Barnes & Noble and Office Depot, moved in and (relatively) quickly abandoned the space directly across from the library, and there used to be a decent Mexican restaurant a little closer to Liberty Avenue. It's hard to imagine I'm on a main street in a major American city when I'm on the 600 block of Smithfield Street. And given most Pittsburghers' aversion to going downtown, I thought BB would be a goner.