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Old 04-28-2014, 03:38 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
26,137 posts, read 25,777,749 times
Reputation: 17378

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpipkins2 View Post
The former Lazarus and Lord and Taylor blocks are still relevant. Both blocks have all new infrastructure and are occupied. If not for the failed department stores, those block would have further decayed. Those blocks would be more expensive to redevelop today.
Correct. Murphy isn't to blame for failed stores. He got them there, he doesn't run them. Best mayor in my lifetime that is for sure. Really no other competition.
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Old 04-28-2014, 03:48 PM
 
4,176 posts, read 2,916,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
perhaps because his supporters seem to like to glaze over his very costly failures and how excessive debt remains a drag on the city to this day. the convention center isn't driving the downtown renaissance and really, neither is the stadia though they are a vast improvement over what was there. the land deals with the stadium authority are atrocious and have produced a lot of garbage...same with waterfront sq. it's not coincidental that the current "renaissance" coincides with the city falling into state fiscal mgmt in 2004. just look at how effective the rather small investment in market sq was versus the massive failure that was murphy's retail "investments." I don't see why people think a return to lavish spending on unfortunate projects and backroom deals that put huge chunks of land into incompetent hands is a good thing.


plus the debt associated with it. murphy is a lot like former governor rendell when he was mayor of philadelphia. he had vision, he was able to wheel and deal (fast eddie) but he had a penchant for large public projects as a means of rejuvenating the city, more often than not they failed to do so and left the city with debt. perhaps the entire concept of mayor is flawed as people often don't contain all the necessary elements to be a great mayor.

The new convention center is a success compared to what it replaced. If we did not build the stadia including Console, Pittsburgh would have become a sportless city. Not one of our major teams would have remained in this city.

The best thing Mayor Murphy did was to re-introduce Pittsburgh residents to its beautiful riverfronts. Southside Works and Summerset @ Frick and Lawrenceville gentrification started under the Murphy administration. He loved his city and only wanted the best. He made us think big and we did.

The Northshore developments are no different from any other cities. Its a tremendous improvement over what was there previously. Does anyone remember what was there prior to Continental and the PSA? Obviously not.
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Old 04-28-2014, 03:59 PM
 
1,445 posts, read 1,962,631 times
Reputation: 1190
Murphy had quite a few hits and a few misses as any mayor will. I disagreed with him about the 5th and Forbes plan and in retrospect, I was correct and he was wrong but was was mentioned above, things like the riverfront parks and Southside Works were wins. He wasn't quite the reformer that Peduto is but he wasn't nearly the machine men that O'Conner and Ravenstahl were.
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Old 04-28-2014, 04:21 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
26,137 posts, read 25,777,749 times
Reputation: 17378
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneW View Post
He wasn't quite the reformer that Peduto is...
What are you talking about? Peduto has done nothing yet. We are a couple years away from making any judgement on his job as mayor. He is new to his job. Talk is cheap. Lets look at him in a couple of years, then we can talk about what he has done.
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Old 04-28-2014, 04:22 PM
 
4,176 posts, read 2,916,704 times
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Fifth and Forbes never materialized and thank God for that. You cant hold Mayor Murphy accountable for something that does not exist. The historic preservation was the way to go for sure. We do have 3 PNC, The Tower @ PNC Plaza, and The Gardens going up. Historic structures were lost but I will not complain.
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Old 04-28-2014, 04:40 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 10,086,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
Correct. Murphy isn't to blame for failed stores. He got them there, he doesn't run them. Best mayor in my lifetime that is for sure. Really no other competition.
But he put the cart before the horse. You need a market, stores don't create a market. Money was lost enticing the stores to locate there, waste of good money.
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Old 04-28-2014, 04:57 PM
 
4,176 posts, read 2,916,704 times
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I was so happy when Urban Outfitters made it to Pittsburgh. Many people said it would not survive in Pittsburgh. Not only did it survive, it thrives and outside of the East End at that.
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Old 04-28-2014, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,220 posts, read 16,729,984 times
Reputation: 2971
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
Correct. Murphy isn't to blame for failed stores. He got them there, he doesn't run them. Best mayor in my lifetime that is for sure. Really no other competition.
wow. mutual fund managers don't run companies but they're certainly held accountable for the performance of their investments. if a mayor can't be judged by the performance of their investments (in this case tens of millions to butcher an old building for a doomed venture) then I guess you have a point. I think that mayors need to be judged by the quality of their decisions rather than just the fact they did stuff. you can pound your chest all you want but the city emerged from the ravenstahl era in better condition than the murphy era (and don't take that to mean ravenstahl was a good mayor) so obviously murphy couldn't have been all that great.
Quote:
PNC bought the vacant building from Forest Hills-based J.J. Gumberg Co. for $3.85 million last June. At the time, the structure had been boarded up since Lord & Taylor closed in November 2004, four years after it opened. The city sank $11.8 million into a deal to lure the retail chain Downtown as part of former Mayor Tom Murphy's strategy to revive the Fifth and Forbes retail corridor.
Read more: PNC to restore splendor of former Lord & Taylor building - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Quote:
The Lazarus project was a costly mistake. In order to attract the store, the Urban Redevelopment Authority lent Lazarus $18 million and the city provided $5 million in additional cash. Despite the large government subsidies, once construction was completed and the doors opened, sales were well below expectations...Lazarus was obligated to begin repaying the $18 million loan once in-store sales reached $41 million per year. But peak sales never exceeded $22 million. The taxpayer loan never was repaid. Even with more than $20 million of government subsidies, Lazarus sustained big losses and was forced to close.
Read more: 'Lazarus' on the Hill' | TribLIVE
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

that doesn't include the tens of million in the fifth and forbes project that failed either. the man knew how to spend OPM that's for sure. "the best mayor in my lifetime" rings more of damning than praise
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpipkins2 View Post
The former Lazarus and Lord and Taylor blocks are still relevant. Both blocks have all new infrastructure and are occupied. If not for the failed department stores, those block would have further decayed. Those blocks would be more expensive to redevelop today.

I don't know there's much to this, PNC had to completely reconfigure the building. in fact, they attempted to UNDO the damage done in the murphy era.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneW View Post
Murphy had quite a few hits and a few misses as any mayor will. I disagreed with him about the 5th and Forbes plan and in retrospect, I was correct and he was wrong but was was mentioned above, things like the riverfront parks and Southside Works were wins. He wasn't quite the reformer that Peduto is but he wasn't nearly the machine men that O'Conner and Ravenstahl were.
even in southside works he managed to sneak in an ill advised clause that restricted the number of units that could be built there. that restriction was lifted which is why there is construction. he did some good things but on the whole he didn't get it

Last edited by pman; 04-28-2014 at 05:17 PM..
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Old 04-28-2014, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Philly
10,220 posts, read 16,729,984 times
Reputation: 2971
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpipkins2 View Post
The new convention center is a success compared to what it replaced. If we did not build the stadia including Console, Pittsburgh would have become a sportless city. Not one of our major teams would have remained in this city.

The best thing Mayor Murphy did was to re-introduce Pittsburgh residents to its beautiful riverfronts. Southside Works and Summerset @ Frick and Lawrenceville gentrification started under the Murphy administration. He loved his city and only wanted the best. He made us think big and we did.
whether or not it would have become a sportless city (the fact is no football stadium ever makes financial sense yet cities fund them anyway) my point was only that they are not what is driving the turnaround. much of the riverfront improvements are tremendous. the convention center is also not driving Pittsburgh's turnaround. the reality is that the state forced the city to stop idiotic spending like lazarus which has resulted in stabilizing the city's financial picture. the gross receipts tax was also eliminated. in other words, the city had to stop screwing things up. even today those heady days of excessive spending are killing the budget.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wpipkins2 View Post
The Northshore developments are no different from any other cities. Its a tremendous improvement over what was there previously. Does anyone remember what was there prior to Continental and the PSA? Obviously not.
this is a poor argument. the question isn't what was there before (nothing), the question is what should be there now. the quality of development is low, continental has consistently failed to meet development goals, and everyone seems to be comfortable building except them. the reality is the deal with continental should have been revoked and the lots sold off to generate higher quality development. these megadevelopment deals are archaic.
Quote:
In October 2003, the credit rating agency Standard & Poor's downgraded the city's rating to junk bond status, giving it the worst credit rating of any major American city.
...But after years of incremental gains, S&P upgraded the rating for the third time in a decade. Friday, it announced it had boosted the city's credit rating from BBB to A
the city made immense gains in controlling its debt with the help of a debt management policy written by Councilman Bill Peduto.

But analysts also credited the state overseers with righting the city's financial ship. In 2004, the city, on the brink of bankruptcy, was declared financially distressed under Act 47, a state law that then mandated the appointment of state overseers...According to the city's debt management plan, Pittsburgh will see a steep drop-off in debt payment in 2018. Until then, analysts wrote, it is unlikely the city would see another upgrade.
Read more: Standard & Poor's increases Pittsburgh's credit rating to A - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
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Old 04-28-2014, 05:45 PM
 
5,894 posts, read 6,840,863 times
Reputation: 4107
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
What are you talking about? Peduto has done nothing yet. We are a couple years away from making any judgement on his job as mayor. He is new to his job. Talk is cheap. Lets look at him in a couple of years, then we can talk about what he has done.
I was thinking the same, I mean I hope the best for him but some people have drank some koolaid that he's the second coming before he's actually accomplished anything
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