An Alarming Number Of Businesses Are Leaving East Liberty (Pittsburgh: bankrupt, living in)

[AaronPGH]

ELDI wore a mask for years that welcomed creative types of businesses into East Liberty. Helped them find cheap spaces and gave them the keys to do what they wanted, preached things like "we always want this neighborhood to be a little bit weird". But it's pretty obvious that was just used to jump start the neighborhood, then it was thrown away as soon as larger money came along.

[Joe Magarac]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Regardless, I find what's happening in East Liberty a bit problematic on some levels. Mostly because I've never seen a community group which seems so in favor of actually displacing the existing community as ELDI. I mean, I do think it's probably better for the city as a whole, but I find it funny nobody within the [community] has really formed an alternate community group more similar to BGC which actually involves the residents.

BGC was founded in 1975 at St. Lawrence O'Toole parish by the Irish-American community that dominated Garfield up until about 1970. It is still run by an almost all-white staff (who now live in Stanton Heights, Friendship, or parts beyond) and an almost all-white board (ditto), even though Garfield has been more than 80% black since the 1980s. The BGC does a lot of good work, and it does help current residents find jobs and houses, but it's not in any way an outgrowth of the black community that has been living in Garfield since the 1980s.

I am not aware of any community group in Pittsburgh that was organized by African-Americans for African-Americans in an African-American neighborhood, and which has had any real impact on any development issue. In Garfield, some African-American residents organized the Garfield Jubilee Association as a "home grown" counterpoint to the BGC, but it hasn't ever managed to do much: it would buy a building in the hope of renovating it, and then fail to pay the taxes and end up selling it to BGC or FDA or ELDI so they could do something with it.

This is just a long way of saying that poor people don't usually organize themselves. The black population in East Liberty is poor.

[selltheburgh]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Regardless, I find what's happening in East Liberty a bit problematic on some levels. Mostly because I've never seen a community group which seems so in favor of actually displacing the existing community as ELDI. I mean, I do think it's probably better for the city as a whole, but I find it funny nobody within the has really formed an alternate community group more similar to BGC which actually involves the residents.

The only true demographic they are trying to displace is slum lords and problem tenants. On the residential end they haven't been buying much except for Multi unit foreclosures and problem properties - with the intention of renovating them into quality single family houses.

They do own a lot of the larger low income developments like east liberty gardens across from station street and some of the big complexes on negley or elb.

They want to keep an active role in the management of larger low income properties because 90% of those residents are good people who don't want the other 10% to ruin it. That 10% can be displaced and replaced very easily. Otherwise you could end up with 30% vacancy, 30% jerks and 40% who are too busy or tired or poor to leave.

With the old Victorian single family houses, their goal is to renovate and flip them to homeowners. Most of these were purchased from the banks that foreclosed on them.

[CFP]

Originally Posted by groar

and while we're at it, eschaton, your equivocation of "less black people" with "better neighborhood" is just as creepy as cfp's.

learn how to read, groan - it's fundamental

"at least the urban planning mistakes of the 70's allowed some soul to move into the neighborhood - if the developers have their way east liberty will be one big soulless shopping mall like shadyside"

[CFP]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

ELDI wore a mask for years that welcomed creative types of businesses into East Liberty. Helped them find cheap spaces and gave them the keys to do what they wanted, preached things like "we always want this neighborhood to be a little bit weird". But it's pretty obvious that was just used to jump start the neighborhood, then it was thrown away as soon as larger money came along.

precisely, well said - it's all about the benjamins, not the neighborhood itself

[groar]

Originally Posted by CFP

learn how to read, groan - it's fundamental

"at least the urban planning mistakes of the 70's allowed some soul to move into the neighborhood - if the developers have their way east liberty will be one big soulless shopping mall like shadyside"

groan! burrrrrrn!!!!

sorry, dude, my tiny woman's brain could only understand your street view pictures of "gentry" that showed a bunch of black people. pictures! i like pictures.

again, you are arguing two completely different things here - that east liberty is not seeing any economic improvement and that greedy developers are driving all of the "soul" out of the neighborhood. the second part is not possible if the first is true. so yeah, when you flip flop from one to another it's pretty difficult to argue with you. congratulations!

[CFP]

Originally Posted by groar

again, you are arguing two completely different things here

here's my argument in simplified form for you - the fact that so many businesses like deep local, moss architects, waffle house, shadow lounge, etc. have already left the neighborhood shows that the current development strategy is fundamentally flawed

i understand that in a textbook gentrification process the artsy types eventually are displaced due to higher rents demanded by the gentry, but there should be a period of overlap when the artsy and the gentry coexist

in this case the highland/wallace building is still under construction, none of the proposed hotels have begun construction (other than groundwork for the indigo) and most of the artsy establishments have already been displaced other than a handful of hip restaurants

that is my argument - do you comprehend?

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Joe Magarac

I am not aware of any community group in Pittsburgh that was organized by African-Americans for African-Americans in an African-American neighborhood, and which has had any real impact on any development issue. In Garfield, some African-American residents organized the Garfield Jubilee Association as a "home grown" counterpoint to the BGC, but it hasn't ever managed to do much: it would buy a building in the hope of renovating it, and then fail to pay the taxes and end up selling it to BGC or FDA or ELDI so they could do something with it.

From what I can tell, Manchester Citizens Corporation is mostly black run, and it's had a major effect in the community. Admittedly, Manchester is different from most city neighborhoods insofar as there's a somewhat large middle-class black population, so poor blacks may still be excluded from community planning.

And I can think of cases in other cities where there has been big pushback in the black community groups when white gentrifiers come in. Point Breeze in Philadelphia is going through this tension as we speak. Usually these efforts fail, but there is organized resistance.

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

The only true demographic they are trying to displace is slum lords and problem tenants. On the residential end they haven't been buying much except for Multi unit foreclosures and problem properties - with the intention of renovating them into quality single family houses.

They do own a lot of the larger low income developments like east liberty gardens across from station street and some of the big complexes on negley or elb.

They want to keep an active role in the management of larger low income properties because 90% of those residents are good people who don't want the other 10% to ruin it. That 10% can be displaced and replaced very easily. Otherwise you could end up with 30% vacancy, 30% jerks and 40% who are too busy or tired or poor to leave.

With the old Victorian single family houses, their goal is to renovate and flip them to homeowners. Most of these were purchased from the banks that foreclosed on them.

I understand the rationale, and I think it's a winning setup. Homeowners obviously won't have to leave until they want to. I do think it's probably only a matter of time before ELDI turns the small complexes into market-rate housing and razes East Liberty Gardens and redevelops something else there.

My point is ELDI is being run in the interest of the local businesses and real-estate developers. It is in no way similar to the various citizen-run community groups you see in other parts of the city. Lawrenceville is in some ways similar, because Lawrenceville Corporation is much more business-focused than say Lawrenceville United. But even here, the biggest thing that LC has done in the past few years is give homeowners matching grants of up to $5,000 to historically restore the front of their houses. Sure, it leads to gentrification, but it also directly helps current residents.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by CFP

here's my argument in simplified form for you - the fact that so many businesses like deep local, moss architects, waffle house, shadow lounge, etc. have already left the neighborhood shows that the current development strategy is fundamentally flawed

i understand that in a textbook gentrification process the artsy types eventually are displaced due to higher rents demanded by the gentry, but there should be a period of overlap when the artsy and the gentry coexist

in this case the highland/wallace building is still under construction, none of the proposed hotels have begun construction (other than groundwork for the indigo) and most of the artsy establishments have already been displaced other than a handful of hip restaurants

that is my argument - do you comprehend?

It is somewhat atypical. But this is because East Liberty's core is made up of large parcels which are mostly owned by large businesses, not a patchwork like somewhere like South Side or Lawrenceville. ELDI is probably pushing it along as well - their plan has always been for certain things to be a "big bang," with whole streets going from largely vacant to occupied with trendy businesses all at once.

Still, it's not so different from what's happened in Downtown or the Strip District. It's pretty normal in redevelopment you see in warehouse districts across the country. Places small-time flippers, homeowners, and indie businesses just don't have the capital to compete in, even if it's starting out a depressed area.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by CFP

that is my argument - do you comprehend?

There's really no cause for you to take that tone. All your recent comments on this thread have been about low income housing and people from Shadyside getting the vapors. You've completely switched tacks.