Police seem to discharge weapons, even in big crowds? (Pittsburgh: gangs, safety)

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

My assertions, are questions and are no more wrong than your defense.

Here is more about what happened. Seems some that were there question what happened as well. According to bystanders the police were flying down Carson at 40mph at that hour.


He said there were more than 10 cruisers and police wagons from multiple police jurisdictions following one another at high speed, with a gap of five to 10 seconds behind the car they were chasing. He did not see the crash but heard multiple gunshots from down the street and questioned whether officers should have used their weapons.
"Opening fire on Carson Street when every bar patron is on the street walking home?" he said.

The bolded statement above is a valid criticism; saying the cops may have been drunk because there are no cops validly working in the area where the event occurred is most certainly a baseless and factually wrong assertion.

[clearlyhumanoid]

Steeler's rookie Alameda Ta'amu must be counting his blessings after hearing of this incident. Police chase from outside the South Side, pinballing off cars, which ended literally a block away from this debacle on a side street. Was policy changed to "shoot to kill" after his Oct adventure? I doubt it. He was just likely lucky his chase terminated off the main drag, away from the trigger happy off-duty and plaincloths cops.

[gg]

Originally Posted by UKyank

The bolded statement above is a valid criticism; saying the cops may have been drunk because there are no cops validly working in the area where the event occurred is most certainly a baseless and factually wrong assertion.

It is as baseless as you saying the off duty cops that where doing the shooting were working the door at places. That is undetermined. If there are off duty cops at the doors down that way, then maybe they were doing the shooting. We don't know and probably never will.

No matter what happens, I can't condone flying down Carson Street in a parade of cop cars chasing someone and shooting on that street, especially at that hour of night on a weekend, when the place is filled with people. If they were going to do the shooting, you better do it long before 13th Street. Heck, you better do it before you get to Hot Metal Street. After that, you have to stop pursuit until the driver gets past 10th. Then you have another window. I can't imagine shooting guns on Carson is going to be the new norm at primetime for bars. To me, that is totally crazy. Also, chasing down Carson at 40+ MPH in a huge caravan isn't overly smart. It really is amazingly lucky no one was killed. Is this protocol? Giving chase right through Carson? How about using the radio and having police watching until he gets to 10th. There are tons of police down there, where they could no doubt follow this guy's every move.

Anyway, if you feel the wild west is okay, that is your right. No problem disagreeing with you and moving on.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

It is as baseless as you saying the off duty cops that where doing the shooting were working the door at places. That is undetermined. If there are off duty cops at the doors down that way, then maybe they were doing the shooting. We don't know and probably never will.

All I am saying is there are criticisms and question surrounding this incident which though I may disagree with are very valid; guessing it may have been the result of drunk rogue cops is just stupid.

[greg42]

BTW if you look at the updated P-G article, it shows they deployed the spikes at around 24th Street. And the car avoiding the spikes is why it crashed into the parked vehicles, it seems, at least according to that account. It doesn't sound like it was crashing into parked vehicles otherwise, just that it was avoiding the obstacle and did so during the avoidance maneuver.

For what it's worth. It doesn't exactly tell us anything conclusive, but there are various bits to the story so far that make it seem like it was handled somewhat poorly by the police, both before and at the point of deciding to shoot at the vehicle.

[SammyKhalifa]

This all serves to remind me as to why I never go to the South Side any more.

[gg]

Originally Posted by greg42

BTW if you look at the updated P-G article, it shows they deployed the spikes at around 24th Street. And the car avoiding the spikes is why it crashed into the parked vehicles, it seems, at least according to that account. It doesn't sound like it was crashing into parked vehicles otherwise, just that it was avoiding the obstacle and did so during the avoidance maneuver.

For what it's worth. It doesn't exactly tell us anything conclusive, but there are various bits to the story so far that make it seem like it was handled somewhat poorly by the police, both before and at the point of deciding to shoot at the vehicle.

So, if you take all the bs away and look at ONLY what eyewitness's said, you have police in hot pursuit running in a caravan type formation chasing a guy in a Buick down Carson Street, they try and lay down some tack strips around 24th Street, which IMHO, isn't a horrible location to give that a try, considering what streets are coming up next. Good job there. Then the chase seems to continue right down Carson into the prime areas with police still not stopping pursuit. Some police are getting the streets cleared and getting people back into bars and such. Good job with that. Then some cops are firing shots on some of those streets. Not sure if they drive was hit or not, but he ends up rear ending a cab and some cop stands on the hood of the guys car and shoots into it when stopped. Wonder if anyone has all this on video from a cell phone? I would imagine that is going to be on Youtube at some point. If they did continue to pursue this guy right down that street, I have to question that idea. I really like the idea of throwing down spike strips where they did. It was a pretty good location, considering.

Do people feel discharging weapons on Carson is okay? Continue to give chase through there at 1:35 or so when bars are starting to let out? It sort of worked out, but standing on a hood shooting into the car? Glad I wasn't around there. Sounds like it would suck.

[norcider]

"This all serves to remind me as to why I never go to the South Side any more."
-My thoughts exactly. I remember it was the place to go in the 90's when the Strip had the title of Wild West in the burgh.

[gg]

Originally Posted by norcider

"This all serves to remind me as to why I never go to the South Side any more."
-My thoughts exactly. I remember it was the place to go in the 90's when the Strip had the title of Wild West in the burgh.

I remember the Strip being cool with Metropol and then that dump Whiskey Dicks moved in and that was the beginning of the end and the South Side was a total blast for people for many years, but keep in mind this situation really isn't a South Side problem, it was sort of a fleeing driver from another area that happened to end up in the South Side. I do feel the South Side is now getting the wrong crowd. There was a time when t that crowd wasn't there at all. Shame, but there will be a new place that will be fun. Not sure where though?

[Benzman66]

For the record, OFF DUTY cops does not mean they are there "partying" or "hanging out" in civilian clothes at a bar. It means they are not being paid by the city.

Due to the amount of trouble in the South Side, bars FOR YEARS have hired "detail officers" or "off duty" cops for security. These are cops who ARE in city uniform, stationed outside the bar door or right just inside, but being paid for their work time by the individual bar.

It does not matter if they are on the city time, bar owners time, on their own time, anytime really as long as they have not had one drink. They DO have full police power within their jurisdiction and can make arrests, etc, especially if they are called on the radios (yes, each one carries a standard police radio just like if they were on the city dime while working the bars) to assist on duty officers.

That evening, ALL DETAIL OFFICERS were notified about the chase coming into that area, and had the right to do whatever necessary.