U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Pittsburgh
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 02-18-2013, 12:33 PM
 
Location: North Oakland
9,154 posts, read 9,387,091 times
Reputation: 14416

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavenwood View Post
ah, a reenactment of the famous dueling keyboards scene from yinzeriverance.
lol
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-18-2013, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Crafton via San Francisco
3,463 posts, read 4,124,565 times
Reputation: 1594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
I agree and disagree. Rental prices have increased more dramatically for low income households. I have a two friends who are being priced out of places they lived comfortably for many years. If you can't afford to live in Turtle Creek or Etna on 30k within just a few years, there's a problem. SCR is in their income range (they both have children). He's feeling the same crunch. He just wants an affordable place in a safe neighborhood, as do my friends.


Even though Pittsburgh rents are lower than SF, there's still a substantial increase happening here. Your increase of $2100 to $2300 over two years is much lower percentagewise than my friends' increases from $500 to $750 over the past two years. Even without rent control, $2900 is a lower percentage increase.

Pittsburgh doesn't have rent control. People are feeling it. I suspect there will be a lot of suffering before Pittsburgh does rent control if it ever does. Pittsburghers aren't earning the same salaries as people in high cost of living areas. There's a quality of life difference too. In high cost of living areas, low income typically rent rooms in houses instead of their own apartments. In Pittsburgh, low income were able to easily rent their own apartments. That's going to change very soon.
Good points. Did you see how they tripled the parking fee from $50 to $150 in two years? My place today with parking would be $3050. A very substantial increase over a two year period. And, the rents were high to begin with. I think what Pittsburgh is experiencing is a correction to the market given that housing prices were very, very low in a fairly decent economy compared to places like Detroit. If it continues at the pace you describe you'll see those unsafe areas start to improve. Many neighborhoods in SF that were once dangerous are now upscale. I think it will be a long time before you have the situation where there is virtually no safe affordable housing in and around Pittsburgh like you have in SF. I'm not saying it isn't hard for low income renters here, but in places like SF they have to cram lots of people into shared situations or have 50+ mile commutes. The downside of a robust economy and improving neighborhoods is how you continue to provide affordable housing. Wages at the low end have been virtually stagnant for decades. Many cities are struggling with these issues.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2013, 02:16 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 98,170,693 times
Reputation: 30523
Quote:
Originally Posted by juliegt View Post
Good points. Did you see how they tripled the parking fee from $50 to $150 in two years? My place today with parking would be $3050. A very substantial increase over a two year period.
Yes, I calculated the $3050 figure too. It's also a lower percentage increase than my friends have experienced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliegt
And, the rents were high to begin with. I think what Pittsburgh is experiencing is a correction to the market given that housing prices were very, very low in a fairly decent economy compared to places like Detroit.
But pay is lower here too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliegt
If it continues at the pace you describe you'll see those unsafe areas start to improve. Many neighborhoods in SF that were once dangerous are now upscale.
I agree. But low income people don't want to blaze that trail because it means bad schools. Then they get priced out of the neighborhood because it becomes upscale. Upscale isn't good for low income people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliegt
I think it will be a long time before you have the situation where there is virtually no safe affordable housing in and around Pittsburgh like you have in SF.
It's happening now. My two friends can't find an affordable, decent apartment big enough for them and their children in a safe neighborhood. I've worked on their budgets. They truly can't afford to pay over $500.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliegt
I'm not saying it isn't hard for low income renters here, but in places like SF they have to cram lots of people into shared situations or have 50+ mile commutes. The downside of a robust economy and improving neighborhoods is how you continue to provide affordable housing. Wages at the low end have been virtually stagnant for decades. Many cities are struggling with these issues.
That's my fear for the long term.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2013, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
13,239 posts, read 13,510,198 times
Reputation: 11164
I think the Southern Hilltop neighborhoods are just about at bottom. They took a major dive when Saint Clair and Arlington Heights (mostly) closed, but there aren't any major projects left in that part of the city, unless you count the few hundred people left in the third of Arlington Heights still open. For them to get much worse, you'd have to start seeing the troublemakers from elsewhere in the city filtered into the area, and there's too many other options, like Penn Hills and the Mon Valley.

In addition, I disagree it lacks potential merely because it's not in the East End. Much of the Southern Hilltop is walkable, and just needs amenities. Brownsville and East Warrington could easily be premier commercial districts, looking at the built environment and the ease of access to the rest of the city. As long as they don't rip out the streetcar cables, there's another plus for the region as well potentially if the Port Authority gets the money. I don't think the turnaround will be soon, but in 15-20 years I could see it starting.

I'm more pessimistic, in the longer run, about the Greater West End and the outer North Side. The West End because aside from Temperanceville (West End Village) itself, there is nothing worth considering as a commercial district (Elliot's is so beat down it's almost unnoticeable), and I think we're heading into an era where the urban poor are going to be shunted into the least walkable neighborhoods. The outer Northside just because at some point, given national trends regarding public housing, Allegheny Dwellings and Northview Heights will be shut down, and it's hard to see how they don't take out another two or three nearby neighborhoods in the process.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2013, 07:52 PM
 
43,012 posts, read 98,170,693 times
Reputation: 30523
Arlington has potential. Quite a few of my children's classmates moved there to be close to South Side without having to pay South Side rent.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2013, 08:50 PM
 
480 posts, read 544,248 times
Reputation: 234
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I'm more pessimistic, in the longer run, about the Greater West End and the outer North Side. The West End because aside from Temperanceville (West End Village) itself, there is nothing worth considering as a commercial district (Elliot's is so beat down it's almost unnoticeable), and I think we're heading into an era where the urban poor are going to be shunted into the least walkable neighborhoods.

There is really no room for a real business district in Elliott anyway. And in reality what's there has actually improved over the past two years. The "business district" runs from Chartiers & Lorenz to Chartiers and Ernie Street"...that's one block.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2013, 08:52 PM
 
480 posts, read 544,248 times
Reputation: 234
No one is going to move into the Hilltop unless they feel safe. Most of Knoxville and Beletzhoover has an unsafe feel to it. Knoxville is the worst.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2013, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
13,239 posts, read 13,510,198 times
Reputation: 11164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pghuser View Post
There is really no room for a real business district in Elliott anyway. And in reality what's there has actually improved over the past two years. The "business district" runs from Chartiers & Lorenz to Chartiers and Ernie Street"...that's one block.
IIRC, most of Lorenz is zoned local neighborhood commercial, and there clearly are a lot of faded storefronts on that street. You can tell them by seeing the places which are frame below, but then have awful fake stone or something of the like on the first floor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pghuser View Post
No one is going to move into the Hilltop unless they feel safe. Most of Knoxville and Beletzhoover has an unsafe feel to it. Knoxville is the worst.
Absolutely, but it wasn't that long ago that the same was true for Penn Avenue through Garfield and East Liberty. Also, the southern portions of Knoxville are sketchy, but not the full-on ghetto that the northern portions have developed into. They also have (outside of some pockets of Carrick) the best housing by far in the entire Southern Hilltop.

It will be a long climb back for the region, but as I said, we're probably only talking about a few thousand troublemakers over this entire region. That really isn't enough to have the area turn into a new Homewood - not unless residents from Homewood itself are displaced there or something, which seems exceedingly unlikely.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2013, 08:34 PM
 
1,901 posts, read 3,818,062 times
Reputation: 1005
Quote:
No one is going to move into the Hilltop unless they feel safe. Most of Knoxville and Beletzhoover has an unsafe feel to it. Knoxville is the worst.
Comparing the roughness of Upper Knoxville to Beltzhoover's is basically the same as comparing turquoise to teal, but trust me Beltzhoover deserves the slight edge...

Let me shed some light on Beltzhoover: in Beltzhoover its very deep seeded... The community is very hurt by the long standing impact of drug epidemics and gang violence. There's even a neighborhood mural with the writing "RIP QUAY YGM," (Young Gun Mafia, a click of triggermen for the 357Curtain Avenue Crip set of the South Zhoove Crips in the early-mid 90's) of a violent 90's gangster. IMO excluding the cores of Homewood, the Hill, Central Wilkinsburg & Duquesne-south of the tracks, Beltzhoover is easily the most distressed black neighborhood in Allegheny County.
Though do not get it twisted! I know for a fact that there are a lot of good people in the neighborhood; there are even artist and corporate professionals who are scattered throughout the area. Yet like in other debilitated areas (housing projects/section 8, Braddock, Larimer, Cali-Kirk & parts of Hazelwood and Homewood) the is a EXTREMELY LARGE population of druggies and gangsters (probably higher due to the lack of opportunity). Also for the past 15yrs Beltzhoover's youth have truely grown up in a very gang-centric environment due to the ongoing street war between BZ and St. Clair Village (now S.C.V. has been replaced by Northern Knoxville as well as Southern Knoxville/Mt. Oliver Boro to a lesser degree). This type of environment: where everyone knows someone who's been killed by the other side also adds to the reason why so many join the local gang.
All I'm saying is that Beltzhoover is more deep seeded, and even though Upper Knoxville's hoodlums may be more visable (they truly are drive around that area late in the day and you will see), Beltzhoover's are definitely equally as active.
Upper Knoxville has more shootings than Beltzhoover these days, but even though BZ has already hit rock bottom while Knoxville continues trending down it can easily reverse back to the way it used to be.

Last edited by Uptown kid; 02-19-2013 at 09:08 PM..
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-19-2013, 08:52 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,542 posts, read 8,999,808 times
Reputation: 3490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uptown kid View Post
Comparing the roughness of Upper Knoxville to Beltzhoover's is basically the same as comparing turquoise to teal, but trust me Beltzhoover deserves the slight edge...


I've been given the impression that the eastern sectors of Beltzhoover are a lot rougher than the western part. A coworker of mine lives down near the Boggs LRT station and I've visited- it doesn't seem to have the same vibe as near Curtin and Climax area.

Even when I drove a taxi 15 years ago, I sometimes rode a horn player who lived on Lafferty and he directed me to avoid that part of Beltzhoover.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Pennsylvania > Pittsburgh

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top