The Pittsburgh Bubble: I've discovered I'm soooooooo politically incorrect! (York: hotel, neighborhoods)

[ditchdigger]

(... women aren't offensive linemen)

Especially straight white Irish chicks, like Hopes.

[zip95]

Originally Posted by zip95

Yes it was politically incorrect. The rules have nothing to do with our feelings since no one is in a position to determine how other people should feel about our comments. There are dinner table rules, close friends rules and mixed company rules. The mixed company rules are

Never mention race
Never mention ethnicity
Never mention gender stereotypes (feign shock that women aren't offensive linemen)
Never mention sexual orientation

Most successful people follow these rules because they realize that there are Billions of stupid social rules we follow everyday. Small brained people throw tantrums, because apparently they believe there is some logic (in their own little heads) to this stuff.. which there isn't.

BTW make sure you tip at least 15% and say please and thank you at least 75 times to the bartender

Btw these rules can change from place to place and group to group.

And Hopes I was not calling you small brained... :-)

[Clint.]

I'm not sure how relevant this is, but it's usually embarrassing to dine out with my father-in-law. Just a couple weeks ago we were out for lunch around here and in his loud booming voice he proceeded to talk about his nephew's "Chinese wife", wondered what the ethnic heritage was of various other people and how that might affect their religion, issued political pronouncements, and gave updates on his finances. I didn't want to listen to gossip about other people or be confronted with political and other sentiments just begging to be challenged, and I'm pretty sure everyone else in the room didn't want to hear it either. Would have been a lot more bearable had it just been quietly discussed rather than invading other people's space.

[zip95]

Originally Posted by Clint.

I'm not sure how relevant this is, but it's usually embarrassing to dine out with my father-in-law. Just a couple weeks ago we were out for lunch around here and in his loud booming voice he proceeded to talk about his nephew's "Chinese wife", wondered what the ethnic heritage was of various other people and how that might affect their religion, issued political pronouncements, and gave updates on his finances. I didn't want to listen to gossip about other people or be confronted with political and other sentiments just begging to be challenged, and I'm pretty sure everyone else in the room didn't want to hear it either. Would have been a lot more bearable had it just been quietly discussed rather than invading other people's space.

Wow! Politics, religion and finances are definitely off limits. You can get a meeting with HR discussing those topics!

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Sealtite

If this friend lived in the Pittsburgh area, there's a very good chance I know her too. Did she kinda look like Darline from Rosanne?

Sorry. She lives in Maryland.

Originally Posted by Sealtite

Interesting tidbit about the NY highway maintenance. I rarely drive that route, but good to know its to be avoided.

Take I-90 instead. It's well maintained.

It's faster too, which seems illogical since you feel like you're going out of your way.

The only drawback is it's closer to the lake so the weather changes very quickly and there can be high winds.

Originally Posted by UKyank

If you look at maps of various indian reservations around the country, western pa is one of the few areas that doesn't have any anywhere near them (at least of areas formally populated by indians) thus our ancestors were either adept at killing them off/ driving them out, or they assimilated into society here more.

Now that you mention it, it is strange Pennsylvania doesn't have any reservations.

Originally Posted by thunderkat59

I usually don't read stuff this long, but Im glad I read this one as someone who has lived in both Pittsburgh and Vermont for a few years -- yins have Vermonters pegged

I usually don't write stuff that long! Glad you stuck with it!

Originally Posted by eschaton

Indians were basically entirely driven out of western Pennsylvania and into Ohio and Canada in the second half 18th century. It's kind of ironic, because in the first half, Pennsylvania was known among the 13 colonies for having the best Indian-settler relations.

Warren County had the last major settlement of Indians, the Seneca descendants of the tribe of Chief Cornplanter, who originally had land along the Allegheny. It survived until 1959, when a dam was built on the Allegheny, and the government paid to relocate the local inhabitants affected, which included all of the Seneca.

OMG! We drove them out? Really? That's terrible.

I learn something new every day on City Data, similar to how I learned why the southern tier expressway is a mess.

Originally Posted by Kippy

Assuming that you were in a ski/resort area, one must consider that year-rounders always have a palpable level of contempt for tourists. Everywhere that relies heavily on tourism has a love-hate relationship with the tourists.

I'm very aware. I understand it too. It would be a PITA to suddenly have an area become congested, etc. But you'd think they would manage to keep their feelings to themselves for the sake of the economy.

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

That would make it (and by extension, them), politically incorrect then, wouldn't it?

EXACTLY! And his treating me like dirt is politically incorrect too! Remember, I said hypocrite!

I'm not denying I was wrong. I'm not even excusing it away. Ignorance is not excuse for breaking the law, even social laws.

But his bubble isn't better than my bubble. I was being nasty. A nasty person living in his personal nasty bubble.

For the record, he wasn't personally offended. He isn't Indian/Native American. He was just one of those superior politically correct people.

[Tallysmom]

Honestly Hopes -- gotta agree with you here. I've met a number of politically correct California racists.... when they find out where I live (in a poor Latino neighborhood -- but when we moved here it was black) they get whiter. From fear -- they talk the talk but to live among.... them? Eegads. Just can't do it, Muffy.

As for the Indian/Native American thing? When I worked at the bank, I had a number of customers who were Native American, and some of them prefer the term Indian..... so I let them that, and remembered. It was a no harm, no foul sort of thing.

But in all honesty, white people need to stop being offended and defensive for every one else. In reality it's patronizing, and in fact rather keeps "those people" at arms length.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by zip95

Yes it was politically incorrect. The rules have nothing to do with our feelings since no one is in a position to determine how other people should feel about our comments. There are dinner table rules, close friends rules and mixed company rules. The mixed company rules are

Never mention race
Never mention ethnicity
Never mention gender stereotypes (feign shock that women aren't offensive linemen)
Never mention sexual orientation

Most successful people follow these rules because they realize that there are Billions of stupid social rules we follow everyday. Small brained people throw tantrums, because apparently they believe there is some logic (in their own little heads) to this stuff.. which there isn't.

You're absolutely right. Even though I was with close friends, I shouldn't have made the mistake because there were some ease droppers. I still would have said Indian instead of Native American. I shouldn't have used the word ethnicity. But THEY BROUGHT UP the St. Patrick's Day parade! I didn't throw a tantrum though. The politically correct guy was throwing the tantrum. I'm just sharing my revelation that I'm a politically correct person, and how I came to discover it. I had no idea until then!

Originally Posted by zip95

BTW make sure you tip at least 15% and say please and thank you at least 75 times to the bartender

I always tip well everywhere I go. The bartender is one of my friends, btw.

Oh, and half my friends in this group are homosexual, and proudly talk openly about it in mixed company.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by zip95

Btw these rules can change from place to place and group to group.

And Hopes I was not calling you small brained... :-)

I didn't think you were, and if you were, I was okay with that because I know I'm not perfect.

I have always been able to be myself when I visit my friends up there. I go every month. Since they're all transplants, they're very cool, fun, mellow, people without hang ups or judgments. It's such a great group of people spanning multiple generations and sexual orientation. We're all so different but we have kindness, sense of humor, and tolerance in common. It's so comfortable. Everyone is themselves there. When I walk in the door, I'm hugged and they send out word that I'm there. Everyone shows up and we have a party. It's like I arrive to a welcome home party every time.

[sparrowmint]

Originally Posted by Hopes

OMG! We drove them out? Really? That's terrible.

I would say that history wasn't your strong subject in high school, but rather I imagine it was just the history of the white man anyway. You know what happened to the Native Americans was a genocide in the US and Canada, right?

As for what to call aboriginal people, it depends on the individual, and should be respected. Many these days don't want to be called anything general, but rather by their tribal name (like, they're a Mohawk or a Navajo, and a member of those nations, not an Indian or a Native). I've never known any to prefer being called an Indian, but I've heard that's a thing down here in the US for some strange reason. Canadian First Nations are more assertive about their rights and status.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Clint.

I'm not sure how relevant this is, but it's usually embarrassing to dine out with my father-in-law. Just a couple weeks ago we were out for lunch around here and in his loud booming voice he proceeded to talk about his nephew's "Chinese wife", wondered what the ethnic heritage was of various other people and how that might affect their religion, issued political pronouncements, and gave updates on his finances. I didn't want to listen to gossip about other people or be confronted with political and other sentiments just begging to be challenged, and I'm pretty sure everyone else in the room didn't want to hear it either. Would have been a lot more bearable had it just been quietly discussed rather than invading other people's space.

I wasn't that bad, but it's a good example. My friends weren't embarrassed by me, but we were in a place where there were ease droppers nearby. I'm not used to that when I'm there. The public usually isn't there when I'm there. We gather after the place closes. I showed up early, close to closing time, and the place was empty. I thought the place had closed and the few people I didn't recognize were trusted friends of my friends. I didn't realize he was a local with a local attitude. My friends tolerate the locals. This guy would have never been there after the place was closed.

Originally Posted by zip95

Wow! Politics, religion and finances are definitely off limits. You can get a meeting with HR discussing those topics!

Thank God I didn't go into religion and finances!

The treaty discussion qualifies as politics but I wasn't even talking about the politics of their state. I was talking about the friggin roads. The reason the roads are like that is relevant. I would have sounded even more nasty if I said the roads were terrible through the reservation and not elaborated because that would have implied the reservation doesn't maintain the roads. I guess I sounded crazy saying I won't drive through the reservation during bad weather, ESPECIALLY AT NIGHT because it's too DANGEROUS in the dark. Hey, my eyesight isn't what it used to be at night these days.

Originally Posted by Tallysmom

Honestly Hopes -- gotta agree with you here. I've met a number of politically correct California racists.... when they find out where I live (in a poor Latino neighborhood -- but when we moved here it was black) they get whiter. From fear -- they talk the talk but to live among.... them? Eegads. Just can't do it, Muffy.

I believe you. My girlfriend and I would have discussions about it. She'd go on and on about what it's like in California and how shocked she is about this and that. I'd point out how she was hiding some serious undercurrents that were worse than anything she was complaining about.

Originally Posted by Tallysmom

But in all honesty, white people need to stop being offended and defensive for every one else. In reality it's patronizing, and in fact rather keeps "those people" at arms length.

I guess it would have been patronizing if he were defending someone there who could have defended himself/herself. But overall I think it's a good thing because it helps educate people. I'm glad I learned something that night. I just think it could have been done in a more gracious manner. He didn't have to be nasty about it.

Originally Posted by sparrowmint

I would say that history wasn't your strong subject in high school, but rather I imagine it was just the history of the white man anyway. You know what happened to the Native Americans was a genocide in the US and Canada, right?

I learned white mans history taught in the 60s and 70s. I'm well aware of what happened to the Native Americans. I just wasn't aware of Pennsylvania history specifically.

Originally Posted by sparrowmint

As for what to call aboriginal people, it depends on the individual, and should be respected. Many these days don't want to be called anything general, but rather by their tribal name (like, they're a Mohawk or a Navajo, and a member of those nations, not an Indian or a Native). I've never known any to prefer being called an Indian, but I've heard that's a thing down here in the US for some strange reason. Canadian First Nations are more assertive about their rights and status.

I've always called individuals what they prefer. Just to be clear, there were no Native Americans in the room. It turned out everyone was English or Scottish, except for me and the *******'s girlfriend being Irish. The ******* was just one of those politically correct people who give politically correct people a bad reputation.