Expansion plans upset West Oakland residents (Pittsburgh, Springfield: homes, manufactured, kosher)

[airwave09]

The split up by direction neighborhoods are already included in the official city map, unfortunately. Should we blame mayor Steelerstahl for that one?

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by jay5835

But hey, if you want to have four or five different Oaklands, you go right ahead. You and SCR can redesign the entire city map. But good luck getting anyone to go along with your nouvelle nomenclature.

Originally Posted by airwave09

The split up by direction neighborhoods are already included in the official city map, unfortunately.

^ This. Prior to moving to Pittsburgh I studied the map that is included in my original post in order to learn the "lay of the land". This map was established by the city---not me. I know all 90 neighborhoods by heart and with the exception of parts of the outer North Side (i.e. Summer Hill) and the dicier Southern Hilltop neighborhoods (i.e. Beltzhoover, Knoxville, Allentown) know just about every nook and cranny of each and every one of them.

I actually prefer a greater number of smaller neighborhoods vs. a fewer number of larger neighborhoods because it helps our city to retain a "cozy" flair. Living in Polish Hill, for example, with its whopping 1,300 residents, has been a wonderful small-town-esque experience within walking distance of Downtown. We have a grandiose neighborhood association, neighbors who look out for each other, and a true sense of community here that would be lost in the shuffle if we were absorbed by an adjacent neighborhood, such as the ever-expanding LoLa (Lower Lawrenceville). The Upper East Side neighborhood of Manhattan, which you reference, jay, is home to well over 100,000 people. That would be like saying just about the entire East End of our city is just one neighborhood. I wouldn't want that to ever occur!

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

That would be like saying just about the entire East End of our city is just one neighborhood. I wouldn't want that to ever occur!

Apples and oranges.

That's all I have to say on the matter. Call places whatever you like.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

^ This. Prior to moving to Pittsburgh I studied the map that is included in my original post in order to learn the "lay of the land". This map was established by the city---not me. I know all 90 neighborhoods by heart and with the exception of parts of the outer North Side (i.e. Summer Hill) and the dicier Southern Hilltop neighborhoods (i.e. Beltzhoover, Knoxville, Allentown) know just about every nook and cranny of each and every one of them.

I actually prefer a greater number of smaller neighborhoods vs. a fewer number of larger neighborhoods because it helps our city to retain a "cozy" flair. Living in Polish Hill, for example, with its whopping 1,300 residents, has been a wonderful small-town-esque experience within walking distance of Downtown. We have a grandiose neighborhood association, neighbors who look out for each other, and a true sense of community here that would be lost in the shuffle if we were absorbed by an adjacent neighborhood, such as the ever-expanding LoLa (Lower Lawrenceville). The Upper East Side neighborhood of Manhattan, which you reference, jay, is home to well over 100,000 people. That would be like saying just about the entire East End of our city is just one neighborhood. I wouldn't want that to ever occur!

Originally Posted by jay5835

Apples and oranges.

That's all I have to say on the matter. Call places whatever you like.

I will say that when I was a Pitt student, we differentiated between North and South Oakland. The "blue sign squad" (love the term, Jay!) may have influenced us in part, but there is a radically different feel between South Oakland's student slums and North Oakland's stately single family homes and condos. We drew the South Oakland boundary as anything below Forbes, however. In our world, there was no such thing as "Central Oakland." That was just campus. As for West Oakland, I was fooled into thinking it existed by the blue sign squad after one of my friends moved out that way.

Otherwise, totally agree about the ridiculousness of splitting Squirrel Hill, Lawrenceville, Homewood, et al. It may make sense from a demographic tabulation standpoint, but it otherwise pollutes our (am I still allowed to say "our?" ) neighborhood nomenclature.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

I will say that when I was a Pitt student, we differentiated between North and South Oakland. The "blue sign squad" (love the term, Jay!) may have influenced us in part, but there is a radically different feel between South Oakland's student slums and North Oakland's stately single family homes and condos. We drew the South Oakland boundary as anything below Forbes, however. In our world, there was no such thing as "Central Oakland." That was just campus. As for West Oakland, I was fooled into thinking it existed by the blue sign squad after one of my friends moved out that way.

Oakland is a particular case, because there's a huge area in the center of Oakland which is either non-residential or only has dorms, meaning the resulting non-dorm residence areas relate to each other very tangentially. It's more similar to the situation in the lower North Side than anything else in the city for that reason, although arguably neighborhoods like Allegheny West, Central Northside, and East Allegheny are more coherent, as the residential fabric is very nearly continuous, just with a gaping hole in the middle.

FWIW, I think residential West Oakland (excepting Chesterfield Street) is the Hill District. The street pattern is continuous with Oak Hill, and the demographics (mostly working class/poor and black) are pretty close to identical. It's just an accident of geography (or more aptly, how the census defined the block groups at one point), that it ended up being Oakland.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by eschaton

FWIW, I think residential West Oakland (excepting Chesterfield Street) is the Hill District.

That used to be the beginning of the Hill District, back before the Blue Sign Squad created "West Oakland."

Down at the other end (East Oakland?), before the colleges had their own zip codes, CMU was in Oakland (15213). Then the BSS put up that sign at Forbes & Morewood that says "Squirrel Hill," CMU got its own zipcode, and now they're in Squirrel Hill. I've always assumed they paid someone off.

[EveKendall]

Originally Posted by jay5835

You actually say "South Squirrel Hill" when someone asks where you live?

I was sort of benevolently teasing you in my post, Jay, but I actually do specify Squirrel Hill South when telling people where I live. The part of Squirrel hill I live in, south of Forward, is lower income than the northern part of the neighborhood. The houses in my immediate area sell for less than $200,000, contain several row homes and duplexes, and are inhabited by many people who have lived there since the 1960s. It feels much different than the areas where some friends live--on Northumberland or Fair Oaks, for example--where there are a lot of recent residents who are professors, doctors, and lawyers, who paid $500,000+ for their homes.
Of course, I have only lived in Pittsburgh for five years myself, so I think I am missing why this is so offensive. Like SCR I knew the neighborhoods as such before I even moved here from looking at maps on line.

[airwave09]

There's nothing wrong with dividing Squirrel Hill into north and south, it makes sense in more than a few ways. It's also a large neighborhood.

However, Homewood should definitely not be divided into 4 directions... they are all part of the same contiguous ghetto.

Bedford Dwellings, terrace village, ect should be nothing more than unofficial sub-neighborhood designations like SSW and Bakery Square.

Mount Oliver is another ridiculous area with the boro and city parts.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by EveKendall

I was sort of benevolently teasing you in my post, Jay, but I actually do specify Squirrel Hill South when telling people where I live. The part of Squirrel hill I live in, south of Forward, is lower income than the northern part of the neighborhood. The houses in my immediate area sell for less than $200,000, contain several row homes and duplexes, and are inhabited by many people who have lived there since the 1960s. It feels much different than the areas where some friends live--on Northumberland or Fair Oaks, for example--where there are a lot of recent residents who are professors, doctors, and lawyers, who paid $500,000+ for their homes.
Of course, I have only lived in Pittsburgh for five years myself, so I think I am missing why this is so offensive. Like SCR I knew the neighborhoods as such before I even moved here from looking at maps on line.

I would just say Squirrel Hill. I knew the neighborhood before there was such a thing as "online." But you do whatever you like. I have resigned from further caring, blaring, or sharing on this matter. You can say you live on the moon.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by airwave09

Mount Oliver is another ridiculous area with the boro and city parts.

If you look on old maps, what's now called Mount Oliver (city neighborhood) used to be Saint Clair. I would guess it was re-branded when Saint Clair became associated with the projects.

Now that Mount Oliver is rough, and Saint Clair is a semi-abandoned wasteland again, maybe it should just all be Saint Clair once again.