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Old 04-17-2013, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Plum Borough, east suburb of Pittsburgh, PA
144 posts, read 223,149 times
Reputation: 130

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Here are some things I think would be different (this is very unscientific, of course) A lot of this stems from the assumption if the steel mills stayed open, we wouldn't have had a huge population diaspora:

Instead of being the # 22 MSA, I could see us being the #18 or #19 MSA, ahead of Denver and Baltimore.

Our satellite cities, such as Braddock, Wilkinsburg, McKeesport, and New Kensington, among others, wouldn't have suffered as dramatic population losses, which probably would have prevented a lot of the hell they went through. I think this would be true to a certain extent for Penn Hills also, which lost almost 33% of it's population since 1970 - their school district might be better than what it is today. There would be a lot more action in these cities, making Pittsburgh actually feel like the hub/capitol of a region, something that I am not so sure is true at the moment.

Fewer Steeler bars outside the metro. A big part of Steeler Nation's ubiquity is that a lot of fans outside of the Pittsburgh region were in fact former residents who had no choice but to move because of the limited opportunities in the 80s and 90s.

The cost of living index (I am definitely not an expert on this) would be in the 97-99 range instead of its current 95. This is because housing would be somewhat less of a bargain.

The East End would be absolutely hopping and Downtown would definitely be more of a destination at night. Along with the South Side, the city might actually stay alive until 4 am, as opposed to being on life support until 2 am by way of Carson Street.

Anyone else have any to share?
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:51 PM
 
Location: North by Northwest
9,314 posts, read 12,907,368 times
Reputation: 6162
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanm3685 View Post
Here are some things I think would be different (this is very unscientific, of course) A lot of this stems from the assumption if the steel mills stayed open, we wouldn't have had a huge population diaspora:

Instead of being the # 22 MSA, I could see us being the #18 or #19 MSA, ahead of Denver and Baltimore.

Our satellite cities, such as Braddock, Wilkinsburg, McKeesport, and New Kensington, among others, wouldn't have suffered as dramatic population losses, which probably would have prevented a lot of the hell they went through. I think this would be true to a certain extent for Penn Hills also, which lost almost 33% of it's population since 1970 - their school district might be better than what it is today. There would be a lot more action in these cities, making Pittsburgh actually feel like the hub/capitol of a region, something that I am not so sure is true at the moment.

Fewer Steeler bars outside the metro. A big part of Steeler Nation's ubiquity is that a lot of fans outside of the Pittsburgh region were in fact former residents who had no choice but to move because of the limited opportunities in the 80s and 90s.

The cost of living index (I am definitely not an expert on this) would be in the 97-99 range instead of its current 95. This is because housing would be somewhat less of a bargain.

The East End would be absolutely hopping and Downtown would definitely be more of a destination at night. Along with the South Side, the city might actually stay alive until 4 am, as opposed to being on life support until 2 am by way of Carson Street.

Anyone else have any to share?
I'm not so sure about this. I think being forced to shed its industrial/manfacturing base, however traumatically, ultimately allowed Pittsburgh to diversify and "grow" in an aesthetic/cultural/economic sense, with real population growth finally starting to take hold. I think this holds true for a lot of post-industrial "Rust Belt" cities.
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Old 04-17-2013, 10:30 PM
 
2,269 posts, read 3,776,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavenWood View Post
I'm not so sure about this. I think being forced to shed its industrial/manfacturing base, however traumatically, ultimately allowed Pittsburgh to diversify and "grow" in an aesthetic/cultural/economic sense, with real population growth finally starting to take hold. I think this holds true for a lot of post-industrial "Rust Belt" cities.
Bingo! If the mills had stayed, we'd still be a grimy mill town. Carson St would be a grimy blue collar strip instead of what it is. Losing the mills forced Pittsburgh to reinvent itself for the better. Pittsburgh's leaders knew the mills would eventually go as early as the 1890's. Only through shenanigans like "Pittsburgh Plus", and two world wars plus the Depression, were we able to keep the mills as long as we did.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:08 AM
 
11,086 posts, read 8,498,033 times
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I lived in the South Hills during the 60's and 70's. The pollution was hard to live with. Whenever I would take a bus or drive through the Ft Pitt tunnels, my eyes would start to tear as soon as I got on the bridge into town. You could see the air pollution, and my eyes had this Pavlovian response to it.

This weekend, I was looking at some historic photos of Pittsburgh on Ebay. They were mostly from the 1900-1920 era. The seller listed them as 'not good quality'. I had to laugh. The quality was fine. It was the pollution that made them seem unclear.

Even as early as the 1860's, they called Pittsburgh 'Hell with the lid off'.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,541 posts, read 10,201,334 times
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Technological advance still continued, so we still wouldn't have nearly as many steelworkers as we did in the 70's.

Pittsburgh's rivers and rails would still be used for industry- we wouldn't have the recreation on the waterfronts that we do today as tugboat traffic would be a lot heavier.

We might not have the east or west busways, the rail rights of way would have a lot of steel and coal being transported on them and the railroads wouldn't have made them available for public use.
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,361 posts, read 16,875,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam View Post
Technological advance still continued, so we still wouldn't have nearly as many steelworkers as we did in the 70's.
Exactly. Braddock and Clairton still have mills - are they doing great?

There would be more high-paid blue collar jobs in Pittsburgh, but these people would almost all live in the suburbs and commute - basically the same model that happened in Detroit, although since Pittsburgh didn't have racial issues of similar levels, the suburbanite mill workers wouldn't be terrified of the city in the same way - they just would be able to afford better digs.
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:39 AM
 
Location: RVA
2,420 posts, read 4,694,878 times
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What if there had been more religious freedom in England in the 1600s? This whole entire continent would be radically different. It really makes you think.

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Old 04-18-2013, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,541 posts, read 10,201,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creepsinc View Post
What if there had been more religious freedom in England in the 1600s? This whole entire continent would be radically different. It really makes you think.


How do you figure?

Britain would have still sent colonials over, even if there weren't as many religious dissidents on the ships.

And if the religious freedom was already instituted in England, we would have it here anyhow- we wouldn't have needed to institutionalize the idea.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:10 AM
 
Location: RVA
2,420 posts, read 4,694,878 times
Reputation: 1212
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam View Post
How do you figure?

Britain would have still sent colonials over, even if there weren't as many religious dissidents on the ships.

And if the religious freedom was already instituted in England, we would have it here anyhow- we wouldn't have needed to institutionalize the idea.

WHAT IF THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION HAD NEVER HAPPENED?

we wouldn't even know what a steel mill is.


guess that should have been my analogy about "what ifs".

What if I had done that? Your reply post would have never been born.

makes you wonder.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Plum Borough, east suburb of Pittsburgh, PA
144 posts, read 223,149 times
Reputation: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by creepsinc View Post
WHAT IF THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION HAD NEVER HAPPENED?

we wouldn't even know what a steel mill is.


guess that should have been my analogy about "what ifs".

What if I had done that? Your reply post would have never been born.

makes you wonder.
I wonder about these things a lot, all the "what could have beens." So you know, I am huge fan of both the Back to the Future trilogy and Sliders series, where "what if" is a major theme of both of these. Can I get a hell yeah from any one out there in the sub-forum?
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