Pittsburgh's "popularity" a problem? (Plum, Austin: top neighborhood, 2013, loans)

[speagles84]

Originally Posted by Strelok

Since Pittsburgh was included in the Nat Geo 2012 places to visit in the world and consistently ranked number one for most livable in America, amongst other awards, I did some searching on this forum, and found people were not happy about the media attention.

Are people worried that Pittsburgh is going to shoot up in popularity? Has Pittsburgh really increased that much in population in the past 10 years? I would think it was going down as it has always been the trend.

What are the problems associated with getting this sort of popularity?

(BTW my move here went smooth, thanks to all for the help).

My quick answer would be no. Some areas in the east end are definetely becoming out of reach of low to middle class people, but in no way is it comparable to an "expensive" city. Even Shadyside/SQ hill would be considered "middle priced" in San Francisco, NYC, or Boston. Maybe the popularity will rise the COL but there is such a gap between Pittsburgh and ^ those places it will take many decades to get to that level.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

I totally agree that there is a wage / salary issue in Pittsburgh but I think that a larger problem for younger people is school debt. In Pgh at least, you are much much much better off if you are an electrician or a plumber with no school debt than if you have a liberal arts BA and 40-60k in student debt. Not only are the plumber or electrician's wages likely better, but their debt to income ratio is much better.

That's northing new. Plumbers and electricians have always had great wages and low school debt. What's new is housing costs are rising.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by speagles84

My quick answer would be no. Some areas in the east end are definetely becoming out of reach of low to middle class people, but in no way is it comparable to an "expensive" city. Even Shadyside/SQ hill would be considered "middle priced" in San Francisco, NYC, or Boston. Maybe the popularity will rise the COL but there is such a gap between Pittsburgh and ^ those places it will take many decades to get to that level.

NY, San Fran, and Boston are irrelevant. Pittsburgh is losing its crazy affordability. That's an important aspect of Pittsburgh that is being lost. Affordable housing is one reason Pittsburgh weathered the recession so well. Heck, my husband had surgery and was off work for two years recovering during the recession. I didn't even need to go get a job to offset the loss of income during that time period.

When the steel industry crashed, the steelworkers who didn't leave the area managed to stay because they could afford to keep their houses via starting lawn mowing businesses. That's the type of security that Pittsburgh is losing. It's going to matter.

Our children could afford to get their own apartments as very young adults. Eventually they'll be renting rooms or staying with their parents for eternity. Young people really could almost afford to live here making minimum wage. My first husband and I made minimum wage in the early 80s, and we lived in the best neighborhoods of Pittsburgh---during the crash of the steel industry.

I could not care less what it's like to live in San Fran, NY or Boston. Pittsburgh is losing an incredible standard of living Pittsburghers have enjoyed. People from those areas can't even begin to comprehend what it was like here because all they see is it's a deal compared to their former cities.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

You can still buy a 3 BR, 2 Bath house in Pittsburgh's most expensive neighborhoods (Sq Hill / Shadyside) for under 400k. Yes, that's a ton of money, but compared to most other cities, it really isn't.

Originally Posted by speagles84

Some areas in the east end are definetely becoming out of reach of low to middle class people, but in no way is it comparable to an "expensive" city. Even Shadyside/SQ hill would be considered "middle priced" in San Francisco, NYC, or Boston. Maybe the popularity will rise the COL but there is such a gap between Pittsburgh and ^ those places it will take many decades to get to that level.

^ I'll reiterate that Pittsburgh is pint-sized compared to NYC, SF, Boston, DC, etc. and correspondingly has fewer employers who tend to pay far lower salaries and wages. We need to stop saying "Oh yeah! Well, we're cheaper than Manhattan, Beacon Hill, or Dupont Circle! So there!" and instead worry that we're becoming more expensive than our TRUE "peer" cities like Cleveland or Buffalo. As I Like Spam has already said once employers realize they will have to increase their pay in Pittsburgh to compensate for the rising cost-of-living here some may book it to Cleveland or Buffalo to continue to pay the same suppressed wage/salary to people who will still think that's "great money" due to the continued inexpensive real estate markets there. It seems like this nation's employers have been in a race to the bottom for a generation now---moving constantly to pay lower and lower wages to boost profits higher and higher to appear more favorable on Wall Street while simultaneously damning Main Street.

I think a great tangent for a thread might be "Will Pittsburgh's Rising Cost-of-Living Help Rebuild Cleveland?" If an employer who used to pay $15/hr. in either Pittsburgh or Cleveland due to our nearly indentical cost-of-living ratios will instead be faced with paying $15/hr. in Cleveland or $20/hr. in Pittsburgh, how strong will their commitment to Pittsburgh be to entice them to stay grounded here and NOT hoof it just two hours away to cut personnel costs? I'm surprised nobody has wondered about this before.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Hopes

That's northing new. Plumbers and electricians have always had great wages and low school debt. What's new is housing costs are rising.

increasing populatiin also means either more income for plumbers and electricians or more of them.

[speagles84]

Originally Posted by Hopes

NY, San Fran, and Boston are irrelevant. Pittsburgh is losing it's crazy affordability. That's an important aspect of Pittsburgh that is being lost. Affordable housing is one reason Pittsburgh weathered the recession so well. Heck, my husband had surgery and was off work for two years recovering during the recession. I didn't even need to go get a job to offset the loss of income during that time period.

When the steel industry crashed, the steelworkers who didn't leave the area managed to stay because they could afford to keep their houses via starting lawn mowing businesses. That's the type of security that Pittsburgh is losing. It's going to matter.

Our children could afford to get their own apartments as very young adults. Eventually they'll be renting rooms or staying with their parents for eternity. Young people really could almost afford to live here making minimum wage. My first husband and I made minimum wage in the early 80s, and we lived in the best neighborhoods of Pittsburgh---during the crash of the steel industry.

I could not care less what it's like to live in San Fran, NY or Boston. Pittsburgh is losing an incredible standard of living Pittsburghers have enjoyed. People from those areas can't even begin to comprehend what it was like here because all they see is it's a deal compared to their former cities.

I've lived in Pittsburgh for my entire 24 years. I don't see this "dramatic" increase. I see an increase, but nothing too significant. We may have a slightly less affordable Pittsburgh, but its a small price to pay to see our region finally turning around. I've been able to afford my own place since I was 20, and I'm still in school. Maybe instead of blaming it on a cost of living increase, we should train our kids not to throw money around like its nothing.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by speagles84

I've lived in Pittsburgh for my entire 24 years. I don't see this "dramatic" increase. I see an increase, but nothing too significant. We may have a slightly less affordable Pittsburgh, but its a small price to pay to see our region finally turning around. I've been able to afford my own place since I was 20, and I'm still in school. Maybe instead of blaming it on a cost of living increase, we should train our kids not to throw money around like its nothing.

Being only 24, you don't have a point of reference. My property value more than tripled since you were 9 years old. Of course, young adults can afford their own places now. I'm saying that they will be impacted first as the housing costs increase. Your children won't be able to afford to do what you're doing now.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Being only 24, you don't have a point of reference. My property value more than tripled since you were 9 years old. Of course, young adults can afford their own places now. I'm saying that they will be impacted first as the housing costs increase. Your children won't be able to afford to do what you're doing now.

did you discount for inflation or are you talking nominal value?

[Aqua Teen Carl]

While we're talking about white collar salaries, you have to wonder what is going to happen to people that are making low wage blue collar salaries. When I was working at a grocery store while in college I made $9.50 an hour (this was in 2005). My brother works at a grocery store today and he makes $9.00, along with his co-workers. As the cost of living increases where do these people fit into the picture?

[Blackbeauty212]

OMG this thread is hilarious.....Pittsburghers for eons complained about "Brain Drain" and dwindling Population, and "Everywhere's better Than Here"...Now that Pittsburgh is actually attracting people its now "OMG the Burgh's becoming un-affordable"....Jesus Christ! LOL, You can't have it both ways people. We knew this was going to happen, we knew this was coming.

The people moving to Pittsburgh are not coming from "Peer Cities" of Cleveland, Buffalo, and Cincinnati they're coming from the Oppressively Expensive Coastal Cities that Hopes finds irrelevant to the discussions the same as the Jobs that have moved to the Burgh. The Burgh is evolving like it or not, it's becoming more transient a defining characteristic of the Coastal Cities and there will be identities that Pittsburgh will lose over time to becoming more transient.

The one thing (I predict) that will keep Pittsburgh from becoming another overpriced, overcrowded Coastal Metropolis is its crisis with Transportation...Pittsburgh is not easily as connected to other cities (some-what isolated infact) to easily feed population back n forth.....If Pittsburgh had HSR (being the obvious Nexus City) to the East Coast, and Chicago and was still an Airline Hub, OMG Refugees priced out of the Megaopolises would be flooding the Burgh right now, it would lose a lot of its uniqueness identity as people from other cities would force change. It's the fact Pittsburgh doesn't have those Transportation conveniences connecting it to the Megaopolises is a blessing to those afraid of "OMG the Burgh's becoming un-affordable"

It's a catch 22.