Apt's at Federal Cold Storage in Strip (Pittsburgh, Penn Hills: to rent, countertops)

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I don't think that pman is disputing this because they're giving people a parking option. He's disputing this because it's immediately next to downtown, and he thinks that more "urban" development should be pushed in and around downtown.

Downtown condominiums have ample parking. Gateway Towers, for example, has a large underground parking garage.

The city seems to think that parking is an important part of urban development.

www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/dt/PLANDOC.PDF‎


It truly is. Shopping and entertainment venues rely on parking.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Downtown condominiums have ample parking. Gateway Towers, for example, has a large underground parking garage.

The city seems to think that parking is an important part of urban development.

www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/dt/PLANDOC.PDF‎


It truly is. Shopping and entertainment venues rely on parking.

of course that proves nothing other than the city thought it meant something. as it turned out parking is a good bit less important and the redevelopment of downtown in suburban fashion never quite ushered in an era of prosperity. the city is less a
leader than a laggard with regards to parking
sealie- when xera were younger the people in charge still held dated ideas from the 60's.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by pman

of course that proves nothing other than the city thought it meant something. as it turned out parking is a good bit less important and the redevelopment of downtown in suburban fashion never quite ushered in an era of prosperity. the city is less a
leader than a laggard with regards to parking
sealie- when xera were younger the people in charge still held dated ideas from the 60's.

Parking isn't suburban. If today's urban planning involves less parking to force people to use more public transportation, they're going to learn a few decades from now that will be a failed redevelopment too. Cities need both parking and public transportation. What downtown needs is more affordable housing for all income ranges. The lower and middle income ranges are more likely to go without cars. Unfortunately, most of the housing downtown is expensive. Most people with money have cars because they can afford to have them, and they will be looking for urban housing that has parking.

[pman]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Why is it then that in old cities in the Northeast and Midwest the neighborhoods which are doing the best are the ones where parking is scarce? Where did they make more parking spots in the North End of Boston? Or Dupont Circle in DC? Or Rittenhouse Square in Philly?

Admittedly, those people for whom having good parking is important will find places where they can have that (and either pay out the nose if it's in a central city location, or move to suburban-like environment). But once a city has enough demand there are plenty of 0-1 car middle-class households who will pick those sort of environments.

even if you take it beyond center city, the most popular neighborhoods today are parking challenged south philly areas, colonial era fishtown with its crazy streets, etc. none of these places have ample parking. twenty years ago the choice places were leafy places with ample parking.

[deathegg88]

OK...so is Wholeys moving out of the building? I used to work there, and on a hot summer day, that's one stinky place. Wouldn't want to live there if a fish business is still on the ground floor.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by deathegg88

OK...so is Wholeys moving out of the building? I used to work there, and on a hot summer day, that's one stinky place. Wouldn't want to live there if a fish business is still on the ground floor.

Wholeys is not in that building. They may have used some of it at one time, and the name is on the side but if you mean the shop it's not in there. It's several blocks down.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Parking isn't suburban. If today's urban planning involves less parking to force people to use more public transportation, they're going to learn a few decades from now that will be a failed redevelopment too. Cities need both parking and public transportation. What downtown needs is more affordable housing for all income ranges. The lower and middle income ranges are more likely to go without cars. Unfortunately, most of the housing downtown is expensive. Most people with money have cars because they can afford to have them, and they will be looking for urban housing that has parking.

Currently, parking minimums are generally set by zoning. All "urbanists" generally ask is that developers be allowed to decide. If they think the market can't handle units which don't have parking, they aren't going to build them. So it's really about leveling the scale and letting things develop organically.

[deathegg88]

Actually, Wholeys used the entire building! (this is back in the early to mid 1990's) I'm rather surprised that they're not there anymore. I know from experience that the building is going to take TONS of work to get it habitable; it's in Really bad shape.

[pman]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Currently, parking minimums are generally set by zoning. All "urbanists" generally ask is that developers be allowed to decide. If they think the market can't handle units which don't have parking, they aren't going to build them. So it's really about leveling the scale and letting things develop organically.

exactly and if most people downtown have money then the last thing taxpayers should do is subsidize parking.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Currently, parking minimums are generally set by zoning. All "urbanists" generally ask is that developers be allowed to decide. If they think the market can't handle units which don't have parking, they aren't going to build them. So it's really about leveling the scale and letting things develop organically.

And they aren't, so I guess the market can't handle them.