bi-racial family looking to relocate to pittsburgh (Penn Hills, Wilkinsburg: rent, receptions)

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by Merge

As much as suburbanites/exurbanites will make the claim that anyone is welcome in their community "if they maintain their property" (which is code for being a 'good black'), the reality is that many of them will start looking to move if more than 5% of the newcomers are black. Just talk to people in Forest Hills or Swissvale. Despite what they will say in public, the perception of blacks as "dangerous" is often a motivating factor behind the decision to avoid living in an "urban" area. I've heard (on a number of occasions) people in Cranberry expressing anxiety that there is now a "black street" in town. Meanwhile the African-American population there is under 1%. I'm not surprised you are offended by some of the comments on this board. I'm white, and I'm offended by the attitudes of some of the suburb/exurbanites here. But that's Western PA for ya. There are some very provincial attitudes.

I simply do not find that to be the case at all. You used Forest Hills and Swissvale as examples but they have much greater then 5% black population, I would guess that their population stands around 50/50, POOR example.

In adition to this, people do not just get up and "move" because someone black moved next door or even in their neighborhoods. People move because of jobs, values of property, crime statistics, taxes and various other factors. Rarely is it EVER because a percentage of their population changes to "black".. Penn Hills is a great example of a community with a mixed population and Penn Hills isnt seeing an exodus of the "white" population.

People choose to live in the subburbs because they want LAND, they want lower income taxes, they want to be able to spread out and not have neighbors up their butt, they want to live next to people of their same economic standing. It has NOTHING to do with fleeing the "blacks".

I'd just as soon get up and move if my neighbor is not maintaining their property values, not minding their own business, overall not being a good neighbor, regardless as to race. My neighbors are white, I cant STAND THEM. Stating that people are moving because of race is something that the evidence doesnt support.

In order for your argument to have any value, that the "whites" are leaving the subburbs because the "blacks" are moving into their neighborhood, you would need to tell me where they are moving to, because people dont get up and quit their jobs and move to other states because a "black" moved onto their street.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by pghquest

I simply do not find that to be the case at all. You used Forest Hills and Swissvale as examples but they have much greater then 5% black population, I would guess that their population stands around 50/50, POOR example.

In adition to this, people do not just get up and "move" because someone black moved next door or even in their neighborhoods. People move because of jobs, values of property, crime statistics, taxes and various other factors. Rarely is it EVER because a percentage of their population changes to "black".. Penn Hills is a great example of a community with a mixed population and Penn Hills isnt seeing an exodus of the "white" population.

People choose to live in the subburbs because they want LAND, they want lower income taxes, they want to be able to spread out and not have neighbors up their butt, they want to live next to people of their same economic standing. It has NOTHING to do with fleeing the "blacks".

I'd just as soon get up and move if my neighbor is not maintaining their property values, not minding their own business, overall not being a good neighbor, regardless as to race. My neighbors are white, I cant STAND THEM. Stating that people are moving because of race is something that the evidence doesnt support.

In order for your argument to have any value, that the "whites" are leaving the subburbs because the "blacks" are moving into their neighborhood, you would need to tell me where they are moving to, because people dont get up and quit their jobs and move to other states because a "black" moved onto their street.

It's funny that you would say that Forest Hills is a poor example. The fact of the matter is that it is 95% white and 3% black. That's according to the Forest Hills Borough Web Site. What do you think accounts for your perception that it is 50% black?? I think that's very telling, and exposes your own denial of the issue. Even the specter of blacks moving in has you assuming it's already happened. I think that demonstrates the alarmist attitudes I was talking about. (By the way, Swissvale is 73.9% white and 22% black... before stating what amounts to nothing more than crude assumptions, you could have simply looked that up on City Data. Care to try again?)

Perhaps YOU wouldn't get up and move if black people started moving in to your neighborhood. I am not going to make that assumption. But the fact of the matter is that it does happen. And people on this board do warn people away from neighborhoods with sizable black populations, often based merely on uninformed perceptions alone.

And yes, Penn Hills is indeed seeing an exodus of the white population. Here's some reading material for you. This site says its make-up is 25% black. Care to make bet on the percentage in 10 years??

Where are whites moving to? Why don't you take a ride across the county line to Cranberry and see.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by Merge

It's funny that you would say that Forest Hills is a poor example. The fact of the matter is that it is 95% white and 3% black. That's according to the Forest Hills Borough Web Site. What do you think accounts for your perception that it is 50% black?? I think that's very telling, and exposes your own denial of the issue. Even the specter of blacks moving in has you assuming it's already happened. I think that demonstrates the alarmist attitudes I was talking about. (By the way, Swissvale is 73.9% white and 22% black... before stating what amounts to nothing more than crude assumptions, you could have simply looked that up on City Data. Care to try again?)

Perhaps YOU wouldn't get up and move if black people started moving in to your neighborhood. I am not going to make that assumption. But the fact of the matter is that it does happen. And people on this board do warn people away from neighborhoods with sizable black populations, often based merely on uninformed perceptions alone.

And yes, Penn Hills is indeed seeing an exodus of the white population. Here's some reading material for you. This site says its make-up is 25% black. Care to make bet on the percentage in 10 years??

Where are whites moving to? Why don't you take a ride across the county line to Cranberry and see.

Lets see.. Forest Hills.. bordersNearby cities include: Braddock Hills, PA (1.0 miles); North Braddock, PA (1.2 miles); Chalfant, PA (1.2 miles); Churchill, PA (1.3 miles); Turtle Creek (1.6 miles); Braddock, PA (1.7 miles); Swissvale (1.7 miles); East Pittsburgh, PA (1.9 miles); Edgewood Borough (1.9 miles); Wilkins Township, PA (2.0 miles); Rankin, PA (2.0 miles);, all with a higher percentage of blacks then the average area locally. I'm sure that would have absolutely nothing to do with the percention of Forest Hills having more blacks then they have? I'm of course a racists for pointing out FACTS..

Your making up facts that just dont suit your argument.
Yeah, Penn hills is seeing an exodus of the white population.. THEY ARE DYING. Have you ever been to Penn Hills? I grew up there, and my parents still live there. Their whole block no one moves from. People get old and DIE, people still live on her street that lived there when I was growing up 30 years ago.. They are being replaced by blacks moving into the neighborhood but this has not caused property values to go down, has not caused crime to rise, http://www.pennhillslibrary.org/ein/pennhills/crime4.jpg (broken link) and has not cause a mass exodis. Taxes in Penn Hills, (primarily school and sewage costs) if anything is causing people to move from there. Your assumption that its race is purely false.

You think the whites are moving to Cranberry to avoid "blacks"? Your rationality in thinking this is what? I'm sure again that this has NOTHING to do with the fact that taxes in Cranberry are 1/2 or more cheaper then Allegheny County.. Sure, that has NOTHING to do with it, its all a racial issue because obviously there is no other reason for people moving then just race ha?

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by Madisonbaby

We are interested in moving to Pittsburgh as well from Tampa. I'm originally from the Pittsburgh area and went to school downtown at ICM but that was in 1986. I'm white and my husband is hispanic and I wanted to know how many hispanics there are in Pittsburgh so he doesn't feel so alone. does anyone know if there are alot of hispanics? I'm just happy he's a Steeler fan with me!!!!

Here are the stats from City-Data's Pittsburgh page. I assume they get their data from the Census Bureau.

Races in Pittsburgh:

White Non-Hispanic (66.9%)
Black (27.1%)
Two or more races (1.6%)
Hispanic (1.3%)
Chinese (0.9%)
Other race (0.7%)
American Indian (0.7%)
Asian Indian (0.6%)

[Merge]

Originally Posted by pghquest

Lets see.. Forest Hills.. bordersNearby cities include: Braddock Hills, PA (1.0 miles); North Braddock, PA (1.2 miles); Chalfant, PA (1.2 miles); Churchill, PA (1.3 miles); Turtle Creek (1.6 miles); Braddock, PA (1.7 miles); Swissvale (1.7 miles); East Pittsburgh, PA (1.9 miles); Edgewood Borough (1.9 miles); Wilkins Township, PA (2.0 miles); Rankin, PA (2.0 miles);, all with a higher percentage of blacks then the average area locally. I'm sure that would have absolutely nothing to do with the percention of Forest Hills having more blacks then they have? I'm of course a racists for pointing out FACTS..

Your making up facts that just dont suit your argument.
Yeah, Penn hills is seeing an exodus of the white population.. THEY ARE DYING. Have you ever been to Penn Hills? I grew up there, and my parents still live there. Their whole block no one moves from. People get old and DIE, people still live on her street that lived there when I was growing up 30 years ago.. They are being replaced by blacks moving into the neighborhood but this has not caused property values to go down, has not caused crime to rise, http://www.pennhillslibrary.org/ein/pennhills/crime4.jpg (broken link) and has not cause a mass exodis. Taxes in Penn Hills, (primarily school and sewage costs) if anything is causing people to move from there. Your assumption that its race is purely false and anyone who believes that its a race issue.

You think the whites are moving to Cranberry to avoid "blacks"? Your rationality in thinking this is what? I'm sure again that this has NOTHING to do with the fact that taxes in Cranberry are 1/2 or more cheaper then Allegheny County.. Sure, that has NOTHING to do with it, its all a racial issue because obviously there is no other reason for people moving then just race ha?

Hold on a second... how am I "making up facts"? I provided the sources for any numbers I used. Do you think I write those sites that I linked to? You're the one who "guessed" that Forest Hills was 50% black. It's not my fault that the facts don't support your argument or your claims.

I'm sorry that you feel that I am calling YOU a racist. I don't know where you are getting that from. I even said "Perhaps YOU wouldn't get up and move if black people started moving in to your neighborhood. I am not going to make that assumption.". That was to avert any kind of defensiveness on your part. How do you read that and go on to accuse me of calling you a "racist"?

And I never said that race was the sole issue for people leaving areas that have increasingly black populations. Why must you argue in absolutes?

I don't think it serves anybody to deny that racism is a factor behind the demographic shifts in the city.

[Madisonbaby]

I hate the ****ing forum! I wont be back! THis thread was suupose to be to help my family and now its a ****ing racial war! Who the hell would be dumb enough to think people move because of the blacks! Bull****! I"m so sick of this racial **** and this thread was to help MY family not have people ****ing fight about racists!!! This is the problem with the world! If you can even state that people move because they don't want to live next to the blacks that you people have serious mental problems and need Jesus in the worst way!!
Peace out mental cases!!!

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by Merge

Hold on a second... how am I "making up facts"? I provided the sources for any numbers I used. Do you think I write those sites that I linked to? You're the one who "guessed" that Forest Hills was 50% black. It's not my fault that the facts don't support your argument or your claims.

Facts made up:
People are moving to Cranberry to avoid "blacks"
Penn Hills seeing exodus of white people to avoid "blacks"
Penn Hills will have higher number of black in 10 years, because of the number of whites are moving avoid those "blacks"
An "alarmist" attitude because we are talking about "numbers".. Where is the "alarm"?
Suburbanites dont want "blacks" in their neighborhood.
People will start to move if more then 5% of the neighborhood becomes black.
People avoid living in "black" neighborhoods because black people are "dangerous".
People in Cranberry expressing anxiety because there is a "black street"

Your own numbers show that Forest Hills hasnt seen a huge "exodis" when the population reaches 5% blacks.

Sure, I dont want to move into Braddock, I like living near people that has the same economic situation that I am in, but I also like to live in safe areas. Drive through Braddock and you'll quickly realise its not a town that I want to be living in. I dont like crime, and I dont like living in neighborhoods where I have to leave the community to buy milk. Look at all the boarded up stores there and tell me that has nothing to do with crime. I also dont want to be living in areas with a predominant population of white people that are not in the same economic situation I am in.. It has nothing to do with race.

I'm white, my 2 children are black, and so is my fiance. We live in an area that probably has 10% blacks, at most.. I have never seen one bit of racism towards either one of us from anyone in this neighborhood. In the 13+ years we have been together, the only racist remark we have heard has been from her friends, black, who made her pick me or her friends. My friends, both white/black were 100% acceptible in our relationship.

Stop making it sound like Pittsburgh is full of white racist people because your neither doing justice against the real racism that exists or pertraying the city appropriately.

[Merge]

Originally Posted by pghquest

Facts made up:
People are moving to Cranberry to avoid "blacks"
Penn Hills seeing exodus of white people to avoid "blacks"
Penn Hills will have higher number of black in 10 years, soley because of the number of whites, leaving Penn Hills to avoid those "blacks"
An "alarmist" attitude because we are talking about "numbers".. Where is the "alarm"?
Suburbanites dont want "blacks" in their neighborhood.
People will start to move if more then 5% of the neighborhood becomes black.
People avoid living in "black" neighborhoods because black people are "dangerous".
People in Cranberry expressing anxiety because there is a "black street"

Your own numbers show that Forest Hills hasnt seen a huge "exodis" when the population reaches 5% blacks.

Sure, I dont want to move into Braddock, I like living near people that has the same economic situation that I am in, but I also like to live in safe areas. Drive through Braddock and you'll quickly realise its not a town that I want to be living in. I dont like crime, and I dont like living in neighborhoods where I have to leave the community to buy milk. Look at all the boarded up stores there and tell me that has nothing to do with crime. I also dont want to be living in areas with a predominant population of white people that are not in the same economic situation I am in.. It has nothing to do with race.

I'm white, my 2 children are black, and so is my fiance. We live in an area that probably has 10% blacks, at most.. I have never seen one bit of racism towards either one of us from anyone in this neighborhood. In the 13+ years we have been together, the only racist remark we have heard has been from her friends, black, who made her pick me or her friends. My friends, both white/black were 100% acceptible in our relationship.

Stop making it sound like Pittsburgh is full of white racist people because your neither doing justice against the real racism that exists or pertraying the city appropriately.

No. Sorry. You asked where white people were moving to, and I answered "Cranberry". I never said they were ALL moving to avoid blacks. You're welcome to come to whatever conclusions you want, but if you want a reasonable discussion- read my posts without transforming them in your head. I've formed my judgments based upon people I've met and talked to in those communities.

A good example of you twisting the dialog is the following...

"Your own numbers show that Forest Hills hasnt seen a huge "exodis" when the population reaches 5% blacks."

If you actually read my post, you'll see that I cited a linked source that reported that 3% of that community is black. If you go back and trace the trajectory of the thread, you'll see that I did that to confront YOUR statement that it is 50% black. You're just making stuff up out of thin air, and it's not helping your argument.

I know that there are racists in this city (and Forest Hills, Swissvale and Cranberry) because people have demonstrated it in my presence. I'm glad that you aren't experiencing racism from your friends. I guess it's a relief (somehow) that it's only your fiancee's (black) friends that are racist. Whatever. I'm glad you are not a racist. Read closely. But putting your head in the sand and denying it's an issue is simply ludicrous.

[pghquest]

Originally Posted by Merge

No. Sorry. You asked where white people were moving to, and I answered "Cranberry". I never said they were ALL moving to avoid blacks. You're welcome to come to whatever conclusions you want, but if you want a reasonable discussion- read my posts without transforming them in your head. I've formed my judgments based upon people I've met and talked to in those communities.

A good example of you twisting the dialog is the following...

"Your own numbers show that Forest Hills hasnt seen a huge "exodis" when the population reaches 5% blacks."

If you actually read my post, you'll see that I cited a linked source that reported that 3% of that community is black. If you go back and trace the trajectory of the thread, you'll see that I did that to confront YOUR statement that it is 50% black. You're just making stuff up out of thin air, and it's not helping your argument.

I know that there are racists in this city (and Forest Hills, Swissvale and Cranberry) because people have demonstrated it in my presence. I'm glad that you aren't experiencing racism from your friends. I guess it's a relief (somehow) that it's only your fiancee's (black) friends that are racist. Whatever. I'm glad you are not a racist. Read closely. But putting your head in the sand and denying it's an issue is simply ludicrous.

So the "whites" dont start to get scared until the community reaches 5% "blacks"..

[Merge]

Originally Posted by pghquest

So the "whites" dont start to get scared until the community reaches 5% "blacks"..

Listen man, I'd love it if these issues would go away. But wishing and denying isn't solving the problem. I think we're on the same page in being against racism. So you're saying that there are no racial tensions in the Eastern Pittsburgh suburbs... white flight isn't happening... it's some myth. Fine, I don't know what else I can tell you. I wish you good luck wherever you live.