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Old 07-01-2013, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Philly
9,706 posts, read 12,182,464 times
Reputation: 2553

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Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
Well yeah, I certainly can't argue with that. Go Bucs!
it's one entity with a worse record than the bucs over the last 20 years!
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:31 AM
 
Location: southwestern PA
20,430 posts, read 30,750,953 times
Reputation: 38356
Quote:
Originally Posted by pman View Post
it's one entity with a worse record than the bucs over the last 20 years!
LOL!
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:47 AM
 
45 posts, read 36,300 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
I just want to correct something here, not 20 years ago. It was the past 20 years, which includes last year. Big difference. Oh and I am not talking about being competitive for those 20 years. I am talking about a club that has had a lower than .500 record for 20 straight years. That record will NEVER be broken. I am still angry at how the Pirates, one of the oldest organizations in baseball, could go that long without even a .501 record. I have a right to be a bit upset at that.

Sure, enjoy the ride for now. Why not? If we make post season play, I will start watching them. Glad I am a fair weather fan, because I certainly wouldn't want to have wasted my time for the past 20 years.

For the past two years the pirates have seen a steady improvement with their record (last year finishing 79-83). Im still lost for words at the fact that you don't think this team can improve two games from last year to get to .500 considering the fact that they are 51-30, THE BEST RECORD IN THE FREAKING MAJOR LEAGUES, and all the players they have added to the roster in the offseason (Russell Martin, Mark Melancon, Francisco Liriano).

I understand your frusteration. Even I will admit that we have endured some awful GM's and leaders. But you need to block out everything before the Huntington era because he is the one who actually started the rebuilding process. A lot of Pittsburghers like to poke fun at the whole "we are rebuilding" theory but it is working, and if you don't believe it look at how our farm system ranks, our record, and the amount of players on the current roster who have been developed in our own system.
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Philly
9,706 posts, read 12,182,464 times
Reputation: 2553
rebuilding is what you do (or try to do) when you had something and then lost it. at this point, the pirates haven't had anything in some time so perhaps it's just building.
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Old 07-01-2013, 10:30 AM
 
804 posts, read 761,812 times
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h_curtis, if you want to argue that the Pirates will collapse based on, you know, actual baseball-related reasons, it'd still be a pretty debbie downer thing to do but it'd be exponentially more valid than this fallacious "hidden vigorish" brand of pessimism that you're pushing.

An entire generation of baseball fans in Pittsburgh (myself included, I had barely turned 6 in October of 1992) essentially has zero comprehension of what winning baseball feels like. With all due respect, we could not care less about your "back in MY day" spiel. Of course these aren't the Pirates of the 1970s. Those teams were special, but I hate to break it to you...those teams are gone and will not ever be replicated. But fast forward to right now, why can't the 2013 team be special, too? Why can't you just sit back and enjoy watching this team try to become something special? Because just as these aren't the 1979 Pirates, they also aren't the 1997 Pirates, or the 2001 Pirates, or the 2003 Pirates, or the 2010 Pirates, or the 2011 Pirates, or even the 2012 Pirates. They're the 2013 Pirates; everything else is irrelevant. Maybe things will work out in a special way this time; maybe they won't. In the mean time, there's no good reason to not enjoy what's happening right now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint Hurdle
Actually I do think there are some people here who hope we don’t pull it off. That sounds crazy doesn’t it? But in talking to people, I do get that feeling. They may not be real Pirates’ fans but it’s almost like, have you ever run into someone who likes not being happy? You know, some people just don’t want to be happy. It’s almost like they’d rather have something to complain about than something to embrace.
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Old 07-01-2013, 11:11 AM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
14,935 posts, read 14,492,524 times
Reputation: 8654
Quote:
Originally Posted by that412 View Post
.... we could not care less about your "back in MY day" spiel. .
Who are you to speak for others? Who is "we"? Are you head of some group of Pirate fans? Some sort of spokesperson?

I was alive and well in the '70s and grew up with a pride for the Pirates that not only was how great they were for a long stretch, but also a very long history of being one of the first teams in baseball. As you said, you weren't there. You couldn't possibly understand.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with being skeptical. I should look up a thread similar to this one from last year. People were all going crazy about the Pirates and I chimed in saying there is a long way to go. I was of course correct and they fell apart. I agree this year, they should be above .500, but is that what our hope is? Is that how far we have gone backwards? If so, wow!
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Old 07-01-2013, 11:59 AM
 
804 posts, read 761,812 times
Reputation: 935
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
Who are you to speak for others? Who is "we"? Are you head of some group of Pirate fans? Some sort of spokesperson?

I was alive and well in the '70s and grew up with a pride for the Pirates that not only was how great they were for a long stretch, but also a very long history of being one of the first teams in baseball. As you said, you weren't there. You couldn't possibly understand.

Anyway, there is nothing wrong with being skeptical. I should look up a thread similar to this one from last year. People were all going crazy about the Pirates and I chimed in saying there is a long way to go. I was of course correct and they fell apart. I agree this year, they should be above .500, but is that what our hope is? Is that how far we have gone backwards? If so, wow!
Being excited and acknowledging that there's a long way to go are not mutually exclusive principles. There's also a difference between being skeptical and "I won't watch until October." Not to mention the difference between being skeptical for reasons pertaining to the actual playing of baseball and being skeptical solely because "they're the Pirates."

You talk about your pride for the Pirates and having gotten to watch the 70s teams merely by virtue of having been born decades before me like it somehow elevates you to a higher strata of fan...yet I would argue that a true fan maintains that pride even through the darkest times. This is something that you clearly haven't bothered to do, so excuse me if I take your lectures with a pinch of salt.

Honestly, this is the kind of patronizing drivel that I expect from Yankees and Red Sox fans. "You wouldn't understand." Give me a break.
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Old 07-01-2013, 12:16 PM
 
1,714 posts, read 1,713,360 times
Reputation: 1253
Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
Um, they haven't even completed 1/2 the regular season yet. Sorry, but 20 years of below .500 and you expect me to get all fired up over a team before the halfway point? If they make the playoffs I will start watching, but really. 20 YEARS!

Frankly, as a diehard, if it were up to me I would ban people who would only start watching when the playoffs started. They don't deserve it.

By the way, your WS odds are old. As of July 2 they are 12:1 with 5:1 of getting the pennant. I don't expect either of those things to happen, but apparently some people do.
World Series Odds | 2013 Odds To Win World Series | Vegas Favorites
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
5,524 posts, read 5,464,104 times
Reputation: 7747
Quote:
Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa View Post
Frankly, as a diehard, if it were up to me I would ban people who would only start watching when the playoffs started.
I will start watching the Pirates only if they make the playoffs, but if it makes you feel better, I won't care if they win or not. I'll be watching for the same reason I went out to see Halley's comet. I may not live long enough to see it again.
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Old 07-01-2013, 02:50 PM
 
804 posts, read 761,812 times
Reputation: 935
I'd also like to point out how the 1958 Pirates suddenly emerged from 15 years of futility (including some of the absolute most putrid individual seasons in Pirates history) to finish 2nd in the NL. Though they didn't win the pennant that year, they were setting the stage for the 1960 World Series champion team. At the time, the Pirates were considered one of the biggest jokes in the league, much like they are today. A similar story can be told about the dark days of the 1980s turning over into the success of the early 90s. The "well they've lost for 20 years so they're certain to do it again" logic is inane and sophomoric (and that's describing it about as kindly as I can) and it suggests to me that anyone who uses it is the kind of fan that Clint Hurdle described over the weekend in the quote that I posted earlier.
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